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Autobreak

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:59 am
by MalcolmBooth
Autobreak on page 116 says that battle groups which have reached their autobreak level are removed from play

If a unit autobreaks whilst in base contact with an enemy unit should it make a rout move first? And if so, and the enemy unit remains in contact, is the autobroken unit still removed or should it be pursued until it's either down to one base or the pursuers break contact?

'Break' in my wargaming dictionary, which admittedly has been around for a few decades and is getting a bit hard to read, equates to 'routed', hence the observations :D

Re: Autobreak

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:38 am
by berthier
I do not have the rules in front of me but I believe it says that auto broken units are removed at the end of JAP. See the full turn sequence. When they reach their auto break point, the unit routs per normal routing rules and follows the turn sequence until the end of JAP.

Re: Autobreak

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:14 am
by MalcolmBooth
Hi Christopher

Thanks for coming back

The JAP doesn't actually refer to autobreaks, only 'BGs that are broken and at of below 50% original strength' (which is going to cover average and poor but not necessarily superior/elite for autobreak purposes) - in this instance I'd read 'broken' as 'routing' and that it means you aren't going to be able to rally them

However there are cohesion tests in the impact, shooting (?), and melee phases for 'BGs (who have not already tested this phase) seeing friends broken during the pursuit'

Gets a tad more confusing because on page 112 a cause for test is 'If an as yet unbroken friendly battle group is destroyed as a result of base loss(es) test as if it was broken, before it is removed from the table' suggesting the unit is either in melee or under fire and has lost sufficient bases to reach autobreak without actually routing as a result of a failed cohesion test

' destroyed as a result of base loss(es)' must refer to autobreak, so it's a case of deciding where 'broken' means destroyed by reaching autobreak and where it means routed

I know when we play FOGR we pursue until the routers are down to one base OR the pursuers break contact

Re: Autobreak

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:03 am
by dave_r
MalcolmBooth wrote:Hi Christopher

Thanks for coming back

The JAP doesn't actually refer to autobreaks, only 'BGs that are broken and at of below 50% original strength' (which is going to cover average and poor but not necessarily superior/elite for autobreak purposes) - in this instance I'd read 'broken' as 'routing' and that it means you aren't going to be able to rally them
Autobreaks are covered on page 116. Essentially, if you take enough base losses to break then you rout immediately in the phase you are in. You will then rout again in the JAP and be removed at the end of the JAP phase.
However there are cohesion tests in the impact, shooting (?), and melee phases for 'BGs (who have not already tested this phase) seeing friends broken during the pursuit'
Can't find this bit - it's not mentioned on page 112 as a reason to take a cohesion test?
Gets a tad more confusing because on page 112 a cause for test is 'If an as yet unbroken friendly battle group is destroyed as a result of base loss(es) test as if it was broken, before it is removed from the table' suggesting the unit is either in melee or under fire and has lost sufficient bases to reach autobreak without actually routing as a result of a failed cohesion test
This is to cover, for example, two base Superior or Elite units that lose a base. Technically they are not autobroken as they have not lost more than 50%, however they are removed at the end of the JAP as they are down to a single base. This therefore forces nearby units to take a cohesion test when they are removed.
' destroyed as a result of base loss(es)' must refer to autobreak, so it's a case of deciding where 'broken' means destroyed by reaching autobreak and where it means routed
No, broken and autobroken are two very different things. Destroyed as a result of base losses means where the unit is completely wiped out. A broken unit is broken, irrelevant of how it reaches that state. It can break by
- Failing Cohesion Tests
- Losing enough bases to autobreak

In the latter case, this unit will rout once in the phase it was broken (likely to be impact or melee) and then once again in the JAP - then it is removed from play.
I know when we play FOGR we pursue until the routers are down to one base OR the pursuers break contact
No - the routers are removed when they reach the level described on page 116. This may well be before they get down to a single base (an average four base battlegroup will autobreak once it has taken two base losses)

Re: Autobreak

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:58 am
by MalcolmBooth
Hi Christopher

Thanks once again for the clarifications, particularly that units rout in the JAP even if they've already made an initial rout move - I think we've been using the FOGR mechanic which, from memory, is that you only rout in the JAP if you haven't already made an initial rout move in an earlier phase

The cohesion tests for impact, shooting and melee are mentioned on pp162/163 in the full turn sequence

Re: Autobreak

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:38 am
by IanP
Hi.

Re pursuing and routers in FOGR. It may have changed, but I recall that it depends what is doing the pursuing. Rules for Cavaliers and Gendarmes pursuing were an exception to the general rule.
Otherwise the rules were essentially the same in both versions.