Bursting through FOGAM2/FOGR

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Vespasian28
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Bursting through FOGAM2/FOGR

Post by Vespasian28 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:39 am

I asked this question following a FOGR game on that forum two weeks ago but no responses yet so as the rules appear the same in FOGAM2 I am asking here in the hope of enlightenment:

A unit of LH evades a charge directly to it's rear where it meests a friendly mounted cavalry BG at roughly right angles to it as it is facing enemy LH to it's own front.

The evading LH obviously cannot interpenetrate so they shift sideways but cannot complete the evade move as it then runs into the enemy.
So, our reading of it is that as it cannot complete the evade, no shift is allowed and it must instead burst through the friendly cavalry.
However, it can only complete the burst through if there is room beyond for it; which in this case there is not as there is no room due to the enemy.

Consequently the evaders are destroyed.

So far this is our interpretation and we agree up to this point.

However, I think the enemy cavalry were being burst through and therefore drop a cohesion even though the burst through could not be completed.
My opponent thinks that as there was no room beyond, the evaders burst through would not have happened and therefore no drop.

We diced for the outcome as we could not agree and proceeded with no cohesion drop.

grahambriggs
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Re: Bursting through FOGAM2/FOGR

Post by grahambriggs » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:13 pm

In V2 this is page 72, left hand column, 5th sub bullet. Which says the cavalry are burst through. So they are and drop a level (note that the 'burst through' does not need the LH bases to be physically moved to the other side of the cavalry).

Now look at the seventh sub bullet, which tells you that BGs that cannot complete an evade move by any of the above, move as far as they can.

So what happens is because there is no physical room on the other side of the cavalry the evaders stop on the near side of the cavalry (i.e. between the cavalry and the chargers). But the cavalry still drop a level.

Vespasian28
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Re: Bursting through FOGAM2/FOGR

Post by Vespasian28 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:21 pm

Thanks Graham, that kind of clarifies it.

The only point we seem to differ on with you is that the evaders are destroyed. If a BG is forced to burst through and there is no room beyond it is destroyed as per page 51. I think the "cannot complete an evade move by any of the above, move as far as they can" is for other situations than bursting through?

petedalby
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Re: Bursting through FOGAM2/FOGR

Post by petedalby » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:59 pm

The situation you describe was the cause of much debate and disagreement when we played V2. A group of players produced the following clarification which was accepted by the FoG V2 community, at least in the UK at that time:

"Moving Through Friendly Troops

The section begins on page 49. A move through can be permitted, (an interpenetration) or not permitted, (a burst through).

The first 6 bullet points on page 49 list permitted interpenetrations. The next bullet point tells us what happens when a BG does not have sufficient move to pass fully through. We then have 3 cases where additional movement is provided to allow the BG to complete the interpenetration.

If none of these 3 cases apply, or if there is no room beyond the BG being interpenetrated, it may not pass through at all. (Last bullet, page 49). This is reiterated on Page 72 - penultimate bullet point: BGs that cannot complete an evade move by any of the above means move as far as they can, and are likely to be caught.

The only exception to this is detailed on Page 51. A BG that is bursting through friends is placed beyond them if there is room but otherwise it is destroyed. This represents the evaders having enough move distance to escape the enemy but the presence of intervening friends results in the evaders being too dispersed to reform and hence are destroyed and removed from the table."

Hope that helps.
Pete

grahambriggs
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Re: Bursting through FOGAM2/FOGR

Post by grahambriggs » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:20 pm

Vespasian28 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:21 pm
Thanks Graham, that kind of clarifies it.

The only point we seem to differ on with you is that the evaders are destroyed. If a BG is forced to burst through and there is no room beyond it is destroyed as per page 51. I think the "cannot complete an evade move by any of the above, move as far as they can" is for other situations than bursting through?
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that bit. Makes sense.

Vespasian28
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Re: Bursting through FOGAM2/FOGR

Post by Vespasian28 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:33 pm

Thanks all, clarifies everything nicely.

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