Unit Death - Penalty??

There is no peace among the stars: the Imperium of Man is beset on all sides by all kinds of threats. Among them is the Orks, a barbaric and warlike xeno race. One of their fiercest leaders, Grukk Face-Rippa, leads his Red Waaagh! in the Sanctus Reach system...
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uberzoned
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by uberzoned »

I've read conflicting reports on losing units in battle... One said that troops stop gaining experience permanently.. another said that troops keep advancing... all reports say the units are NOT removed from your pool (perma-death). Could a Dev please state what the penalty is, if there is one, for unit death. Thanks!
uberzoned
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by uberzoned »

I feel like last night I ran into a number of skirmish missions where none of my troops leveled up... def don't understand the mechanics and hope I'm not making huge mistakes here. On a side note, how should we interpret the soldier stats in the mission... I feel like the bottom bar is for experience, but doesn't seem to work... sometimes it just sits at 1000 of 1000... or even -500 of 1000... not understanding how units level is also a problem. Do they stop gaining exp once they "ding" in the mission? That would be great to know so that I can use other units to fight instead.
Dizzy_slith
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by Dizzy_slith »

Units that level up without wargear ime have been those units that have died. They lose out on wargear and take longer to gain experience.
uberzoned
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by uberzoned »

So I'm frustrated. I found this in the manual:

"If during the course of a mission a unit fills up its experience bar by killing enemy units then the next time that unit appears in the game it will have a higher experience level and it will have become a more efficient unit.

All units can gain new abilities during the course of a campaign every time that their experience level increases as a result of destroying enemy units. Units that are destroyed during a mission will not gain any new abilities if they are subsequently reformed later on in the game."

1. How can you tell if a unit has reached the point where they won't gain new abilities (died)?
2. What if a unit dies before reaching level 2?
3. If the unit exp bar fills up, do they continue to gain exp on that mission?
4. Are abilities random?

I see units that have a definite level next to them... and now I also see units without a level... but with abilities. I wonder if they simply lose their level when they die? Not having this information makes it very difficult to play the long game. It's kinda important. Also, since unit selection is random, who says I want to keep using a unit that won't gain abilities. I'd rather have the choice to start fresh or to keep something distinguished. All of which aren't clear to me... maybe there's a way to tell who has died... although it seems that I'm being force fed units that have no future.

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Dizzy_slith
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by Dizzy_slith »

1. How can you tell if a unit has reached the point where they won't gain new abilities (died)?
When their Experience bar is fully green and filled or when the current experience is equal to the max experience of that unit.
2. What if a unit dies before reaching level 2?
I dont know, but Ive seen units that have been killed that I leveled up, but since they died before completing the mission they reach the next tier of experience but are not given any wargear or abilities.
3. If the unit exp bar fills up, do they continue to gain exp on that mission?
No.
4. Are abilities random?
I think there is some random element, but obviously you wont see ceramite plating on a blood claw.
uberzoned
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by uberzoned »

Hey D,

Thanks for helping. I was hoping you could clarify your thoughts on 1 and 2. You mention that after a unit dies, the exp bar will fill up completely and then stay that way... then you mention a unit that died gaining a level. I think you're saying that the unit that died/lvl'd had both happen in the same mission. My current thought was that the unit, on the next mission, would be back to lvl1... seems the behavior is the unit loses all levels but keeps abilities... or maybe in this case it keeps the lvl (bug) and doesn't get an ability... which could be confusing later on because you now have a lvl2+ unit that will no longer progress. What are your thoughts?

Btw... you keep using the term wargear... and here's how it confused me. During all of this, I had a couple lvl1 units with abilities. Since they hadn't leveled, and you were using the term war GEAR, I thought that they must be picking up things off the dead enemy. This led to hours of trying to figure out how and much confusion. Wargear isn't mentioned in the manual. It totally sidetracked this newb for a night and I thought I would mention it. Maybe don't use that term? :)
Dizzy_slith
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by Dizzy_slith »

You're right, my apologies. Devs call them "weapon upgrades and abilities". I use wargear for short.

You asked for clarification on Q 1 and 2.

1. How can you tell if a unit has reached the point where they won't gain new abilities (died)?

I know from my experience playing the game that a unit has three levels of experience and if they dont die thru the campaign you can see them attain 3 different types of 'wargear' one of which will be awarded to them after mission completion once they reach their maximum experience level. Experience is obtained from being the unit that kills an enemy and that unit's force points cost is awarded as experience to the unit that killed it. In the post mission briefing screen after a mission has been concluded, youll see all the units that were awarded wargear in the menu to the right.

A particular unit has three level tiers. Infantry usually need 500 to attain their first experience level and be awarded a wargear item. The next tier is 1000 experience points and 2500 is needed to attain the third. Once the third level is attained, they will not level up anymore or gain anymore experience. You'll see some units like Land Speeders have a steeper experience tier to achieve with their first level needing more than an infantry unit at 700 and the second tier needing 1400. Im not sure what the third tier level for that unit is but its higher than what infantry need at 2500, for example.

If a unit dies after leveling up it will not be awarded a wargear item, yet that level of experience will be obtained and they will move toward their next level. So sometimes you'll have a unit that is on level two or three of their experience tier and not have any wargear because you've gotten them killed. It's possible to have a unit that is maxed out in experience that has never obtained a wargear award.

It's been my experience that despite a unit being killed, they are still able to gain experience and be awarded wargear. This is a bug I believe. It doesnt happen often, but when it does, for me at least, it breaks immersion. There is currently an argument to make that when a unit dies, it's wargear should be removed, like an Ironman mode. This isnt the case at present. At most a killed unit retains its wargear but either advances to the next tier of experience without being awarded a wargear for that tier to simulate the penalty of death or the above happens which is a bug and they are treated as if they never died and proceed normally with gaining experience. Its a little wonky.



2. What if a unit dies before reaching level 2?

See above
Voarag
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by Voarag »

Why not just impose an exp penalty on slain units?

If they are "demoted" due to the penalty just grey out the ability they earned until you can get them back over the threshold.
Merkkari
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Re: Unit Death - Penalty??

Post by Merkkari »

There is also a bug, happened in my last game.
My melta unit kills last enemy, game ends in victory immediately and gains the experience to full XP bar 1000/1000 but doesnt get wargear second wargear award.
Has happened twice as I have dreadnought, has max level 4. but only 2 wargear and has never died. Annoying
Edit.
Seems totally random or rare bug. Got another game and my unit got full xp bar from last kill and immediate victory. Unit gained new Wargear from it.
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