Dragoons - proposal

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jonphilp
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by jonphilp » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:01 pm

Hi,

Any comments on Dragoons from any test games. Comments from our club so far seem to suggest that they have become so dependent on terrain that they have become emasculated and are being dropped from army lists. If people have a light horse option they are now in front of Dragoons which is a shame as they were a challenge to use before but not a useless troop type.

DavidT
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by DavidT » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:01 pm

In play tests I have found them to be very difficult to use successfully. The only reason I now use them in my Swedish army is because they are a cheap BG. Maybe this is historical, but if it sees the omission of dragoons from lists it will be a bad thing. One option is to make them cheaper, the other is possibly to give them a 4MU move as a compromise.

DavidT
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by DavidT » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:05 pm

That's a 4MU move when within 6MU of the enemy.

benjones1211
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by benjones1211 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:06 pm

So dragoons cost 1 more point than MF, once within 6MU of enemy they are treated as MF

Pro
Can do a 3MU move backwards facing the same way
Can evade if charged
Move quickly outside 6MU

Cons
Can only fire in one rank
Cannot charge enemy in the open even in the flank or rear

Is this difference worth a point or should they be the same price.
Or should they now be allowed to charge flanks and rear in the open and/or shoot in two ranks (they do melee in two ranks, or should I say there is nothing that says they can't unlike the other exceptions so I have always allowed it.)

Also allowing them to shoot in two ranks (where possible, ie fields, BG, Steep hill etc, ) make them easier to hide in terrain and be effective.

spedders
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by spedders » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:44 pm

I think definitely their extra mobility up to 6" is worth a point. I am very against reducing dragoons points as I still think they are useful. They were far too powerful before.

kevinj
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by kevinj » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:57 pm

Another pro is that they count towards your pre-battle initiative.

Jhykronos
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by Jhykronos » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:31 pm

spedders wrote:I think definitely their extra mobility up to 6" is worth a point. I am very against reducing dragoons points as I still think they are useful. They were far too powerful before.
"Powerful" is probably not the right word (in and of themselves, they didn't dominate the tabletop)... Too "flexible"/ "points-efficient"/ "a-historical" is probably more accurate.

Jhykronos
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by Jhykronos » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:45 pm

jonphilp wrote:Hi,

Any comments on Dragoons from any test games. Comments from our club so far seem to suggest that they have become so dependent on terrain that they have become emasculated and are being dropped from army lists. If people have a light horse option they are now in front of Dragoons which is a shame as they were a challenge to use before but not a useless troop type.
I would say if people will now be more likely to use their light horse as light horse than their dragoons as light horse, then the proposal is an unmitigated success.

spedders
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by spedders » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:53 am

By powerful I meant for their points it was a no brainer to take them at their points cost.

jonphilp
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by jonphilp » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:19 pm

I have tried out the new dragoon rules . I my humble opinion if they are taken ( I suspect they will become quite an elusive sight on the table top) unless the terrain is spot on you will find dragoons acting as a camp guard as they are now even a greater liability than before. Trying to replicate their use during the ECW will be very difficult. Hopefully more play testing will show if the amendment to the basic rules achieves what was intended. A shame I have never seen dragoon sniper teams in action.

DavidT
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by DavidT » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:56 pm

Dragoons have been used in almost every one of my playtests so far.

You cannot use them in the open to delay mounted like LH, they must find a piece of terrain to hide in.
If attacked, they are committed and cannot be withdrawn. If attacked by superior numbers, they need to be supported or they will be destroyed.

I generally have no issues with this - it would appear to be more historical. However, Dragoons are no longer the super troops they were and so may disappear from competitive armies.

By the way, the Swedish Dragoons at Breitenfeld were deployed to guard the baggage.

jonphilp
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by jonphilp » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:51 pm

As we discussed at the club yesterday we all have obviously been playing the rules incorrectly as we have never seen dragoons as "super troops ". In our games dragons have mainly been speed bumps for determined horse when out in the open. With the new rules this will be a given unless you are prone to throw low dice .

RonanTheLibrarian
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by RonanTheLibrarian » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:05 am

jonphilp wrote:....unless you are prone to throw low dice .
In my case, not so much "prone"; more like "certain".
"No plan survives the first contact with the dice."

"There is something wrong with our bloody dice today!"

jonphilp
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Re: Dragoons - proposal

Post by jonphilp » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:04 am

But at least you are consistent in your die rolls and it makes Paul feel a little better when he is opposite you on the table.

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