SCW Ebro - need ideas

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Vorskl
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SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Vorskl » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:16 am

Hi all,
For those lucky who have survived (I am not even dreaming about winning all victory objectives) the Ebro battle of SCW, could you please post some of your ideas and core compositions?
I tried Soviet-1941 passive defense, I tried counter-offense via the very north and then heading south... I tried 3xFlak88 + 6 fighters core... nothing works, fresh Repb units keep popping up and steamrolling through all the map. :twisted: :oops: :cry:
I do assume you have to do counter-offense for the simple reason that Repb-Soviet SUDDENLY have a large number of uber artillery (152 and 122 mm units) that does not let you just sit behind your cozy Pak+10.5 arty lines.

nexusno2000
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by nexusno2000 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:38 am

Play something else, like the core campaign, while you wait for 1939 DLC. Guaranteed more fun.
Green Knight
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Vorskl
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Vorskl » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:12 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:38 am
Play something else, like the core campaign, while you wait for 1939 DLC. Guaranteed more fun.
I used a cheat to end Ebro at 25th turn of 30 (so, not so much cheating in my book - could have lasted 2 more turns easily, but I am short of real-life time) and went to the next 2 scenarios
Girona was actually A LOT of fun chasing these cargo trains and Madrid is cool; I like the idea of Soviet fighting Republicans while Nationalists are eating popcorn :)
So with an exception of Ebro which is too much in my book, the rest of scenarios are very pleasant for a player.

fluffybunnyuk
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by fluffybunnyuk » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:06 pm

heres an idea for you.
20 strength commendation tank (steamroller) with double attack, +5vs infantry and 4 or 5 overruns/turn.
Sit it near the spawn in point.

3 spawn points ... so 3 different cheesy tank setups.

nexusno2000
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by nexusno2000 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:22 pm

fluffybunnyuk wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:06 pm
heres an idea for you.
20 strength commendation tank (steamroller) with double attack, +5vs infantry and 4 or 5 overruns/turn.
Sit it near the spawn in point.

3 spawn points ... so 3 different cheesy tank setups.
Sounds like an interesting way to play. Not.
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

Rhaeg
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Rhaeg » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:26 pm

I'm no crack at this game, but managed to complete the Ebro scenario holding 4 of the victory hexes in the end (playing at the default difficulty). I first tried to defend all of the river crossings, but that's impossible I think. Enemy artillery just keeps pounding you and then there' s the endless stream of aircraft. I beat it on my second attempt, but it wasn't easy.

This time I concentrated most of my defenses on the mountain ridge going from north to south on your half of the river. I only tried to hold the 2 crossings in the northwest and the one in the southwest, though at the latter position the AI was able to survive on its own for quite some time. Most of my artillery, anti-air and Italian infantry were positioned in the mountain range, letting the enemy come to me and using the high ground for better range on the artillery. I think I fielded 5 German and 1 Italian artillery unit. An 88mm gun did great at giving air cover for my mountain units, it blows anything the AI sends to pieces. I had 3 Bf109 and 3 stuka's as my airforce. The Messerschmitts do well (your fighters are finally superior to the Polikarpovs by now), but the enemy seems to have endless new waves of aircraft, so all you can do is take down as many as you can to protect your units... you will basically never gain true air superiority in this scenario.

I then let the enemy come to me basically, blasting them with my artillery, using stuka's to bomb enemy armor that got close and using my own armor to take out anything that got close to my defensive lines. I had my largest group of armor more to the north and a smaller group guarding the southern approach to my mountain range. Cover the river crossings you are defending with both artillery and anti-tank and just keep reinforcing them every turn, they will get pounded by 15+ enemy artillery across the river each turn. Huge groups of enemies would end up sitting at these bottlenecks doing nothing, not able to advance. In the last few turns I managed to retake one of the crossings, but the endless stream of enemies makes it seemingly impossible to mount any serious counter offensive. I am curious to see how some better players than myself will be handling this, but the youtube peeps don't seem to have gotten that far yet :)

The hardest scenario by far. The amount of enemy units seems a bit silly and the artillery especially will hurt you a lot. Luckily you should have access to plenty of prestige points by now so don't be afraid to use them.

Snake97644
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Snake97644 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:42 pm

Rhaeg wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:26 pm
I'm no crack at this game, but managed to complete the Ebro scenario holding 4 of the victory hexes in the end (playing at the default difficulty). I first tried to defend all of the river crossings, but that's impossible I think. Enemy artillery just keeps pounding you and then there' s the endless stream of aircraft. I beat it on my second attempt, but it wasn't easy.

This time I concentrated most of my defenses on the mountain ridge going from north to south on your half of the river. I only tried to hold the 2 crossings in the northwest and the one in the southwest, though at the latter position the AI was able to survive on its own for quite some time. Most of my artillery, anti-air and Italian infantry were positioned in the mountain range, letting the enemy come to me and using the high ground for better range on the artillery. I think I fielded 5 German and 1 Italian artillery unit. An 88mm gun did great at giving air cover for my mountain units, it blows anything the AI sends to pieces. I had 3 Bf109 and 3 stuka's as my airforce. The Messerschmitts do well (your fighters are finally superior to the Polikarpovs by now), but the enemy seems to have endless new waves of aircraft, so all you can do is take down as many as you can to protect your units... you will basically never gain true air superiority in this scenario.

I then let the enemy come to me basically, blasting them with my artillery, using stuka's to bomb enemy armor that got close and using my own armor to take out anything that got close to my defensive lines. I had my largest group of armor more to the north and a smaller group guarding the southern approach to my mountain range. Cover the river crossings you are defending with both artillery and anti-tank and just keep reinforcing them every turn, they will get pounded by 15+ enemy artillery across the river each turn. Huge groups of enemies would end up sitting at these bottlenecks doing nothing, not able to advance. In the last few turns I managed to retake one of the crossings, but the endless stream of enemies makes it seemingly impossible to mount any serious counter offensive. I am curious to see how some better players than myself will be handling this, but the youtube peeps don't seem to have gotten that far yet :)

The hardest scenario by far. The amount of enemy units seems a bit silly and the artillery especially will hurt you a lot. Luckily you should have access to plenty of prestige points by now so don't be afraid to use them.
I also found giving ground and drawing the enemy into the mountains worked well. I did this in the south, while attacking on the enemy's flank in the north, I came up two shy of holding all the vic locations. It is a tough scenario.

Snake97644
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Snake97644 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:52 pm

Rhaeg wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:26 pm
The hardest scenario by far. The amount of enemy units seems a bit silly and the artillery especially will hurt you a lot. Luckily you should have access to plenty of prestige points by now so don't be afraid to use them.
Yeah it was a bit much, I found that the worst part was that the spawns happened seemingly right up to the end. There seemed to be a spawn in the north, which had been clam and secure, with only 4 or 5 turns left that unhinged my otherwise successful flank attack on the enemy's side of the Ebro.
I kinda want to replay this one, but don't have the patience at the moment. :D

Kerensky
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Kerensky » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 pm

Rhaeg wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:26 pm
I'm no crack at this game, but managed to complete the Ebro scenario holding 4 of the victory hexes in the end (playing at the default difficulty). I first tried to defend all of the river crossings, but that's impossible I think. Enemy artillery just keeps pounding you and then there' s the endless stream of aircraft. I beat it on my second attempt, but it wasn't easy... Luckily you should have access to plenty of prestige points by now so don't be afraid to use them.
This is good advise. Stop overextending and trying to overrun the entire map. Focus on the required objectives if you are struggling. This is the whole point of Degrees of Victory. :!:

fluffybunnyuk
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by fluffybunnyuk » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:11 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:22 pm
fluffybunnyuk wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:06 pm
heres an idea for you.
20 strength commendation tank (steamroller) with double attack, +5vs infantry and 4 or 5 overruns/turn.
Sit it near the spawn in point.

3 spawn points ... so 3 different cheesy tank setups.
Sounds like an interesting way to play. Not.
Winning is Winning. I dont think Hannibal would object.
Theres nothing heroic about sitting in a town with soft/hard support waiting to be attacked.
If you dont have the units for an assault across the river, then thats the only choice soft/hard artillery, infantry and AA guns, and attritional warfare.
I just dont want to pay prestige for that kind of war.

nexusno2000
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by nexusno2000 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:10 pm

runany Victory 0 is even easier.

A win is a win :wink:
Green Knight
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Vorskl
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Vorskl » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:27 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 pm
Rhaeg wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:26 pm
I'm no crack at this game, but managed to complete the Ebro scenario holding 4 of the victory hexes in the end (playing at the default difficulty). I first tried to defend all of the river crossings, but that's impossible I think. Enemy artillery just keeps pounding you and then there' s the endless stream of aircraft. I beat it on my second attempt, but it wasn't easy... Luckily you should have access to plenty of prestige points by now so don't be afraid to use them.
This is good advise. Stop overextending and trying to overrun the entire map. Focus on the required objectives if you are struggling. This is the whole point of Degrees of Victory. :!:
I did not even dare to go south of the 2nd crossing from the top (it'll be 4th river crossing if you start counting from the top left). So far what appears is that with my tanks I can raid Repb artillery stationed between 3rd and 4th crossings, hence guarding the 3rd crossing. Without this clearing from uber Soviet arty, the 3rd and 4th crossings are doomed as 122 and 152 mm will decimate everything.

I was also able to push from the 1st crossing and clear the north above the river to meet the southern group near the 3rd crossing. By that time the Repb hell is unleashed from 3 directions: south, south west and north west. FYI - I have 3xFlak 88 + 4 Bf 109 + 3-4 Italian fighters (thanks for my traits making capturing easy, I have had no shortage of $$$ prior to this scenario) working full time to clear the sky from Soviety and that's hardly enough. I dont know how prestige-starving players will be defending.

Whoever posts a video or AAR of this batter at harder than default difficulty - I am really curious/ envy to see your mastery please!

Vorskl
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Vorskl » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:27 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 pm
Rhaeg wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:26 pm
I'm no crack at this game, but managed to complete the Ebro scenario holding 4 of the victory hexes in the end (playing at the default difficulty). I first tried to defend all of the river crossings, but that's impossible I think. Enemy artillery just keeps pounding you and then there' s the endless stream of aircraft. I beat it on my second attempt, but it wasn't easy... Luckily you should have access to plenty of prestige points by now so don't be afraid to use them.
This is good advise. Stop overextending and trying to overrun the entire map. Focus on the required objectives if you are struggling. This is the whole point of Degrees of Victory. :!:
I did not even dare to go south of the 2nd crossing from the top (it'll be 4th river crossing if you start counting from the top left). So far what appears is that with my tanks I can raid Repb artillery stationed between 3rd and 4th crossings, hence guarding the 3rd crossing. Without this clearing from uber Soviet arty, the 3rd and 4th crossings are doomed as 122 and 152 mm will decimate everything.

I was also able to push from the 1st crossing and clear the north above the river to meet the southern group near the 3rd crossing. By that time the Repb hell is unleashed from 3 directions: south, south west and north west. FYI - I have 3xFlak 88 + 4 Bf 109 + 3-4 Italian fighters (thanks for my traits making capturing easy, I have had no shortage of $$$ prior to this scenario) working full time to clear the sky from Soviety and that's hardly enough. I dont know how prestige-starving players will be defending.

Whoever posts a video or AAR of this batter at harder than default difficulty - I am really curious/ envy to see your mastery please!

kondi754
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by kondi754 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:19 pm

@Vorskl
I'm at Brunete, when I'll reach Ebro I'll write what I've done to win

fluffybunnyuk
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by fluffybunnyuk » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:37 pm

I just run my tanks out to hose down all the AI artillery.
Then I sit the Veredja in the middle and run it up or down the map to take out the spawns.
I use 6 flak trucks to hose down aircraft.

As you can see the maps empty if i remove the fog of war. Its turn 9 , and it stays like this until the end.

Image

My loadout is 6AA flak trucks,6AT guns towed,4 core tanks+3 support 1A, 2 tact bomber, 3 strat bomber , 2 soft/hard support artillery,4 recon planes.
No fighters.

adiekmann
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by adiekmann » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:10 pm

I have only completed the map once - and barely made it.

I tried to strengthen the far north by concentrating my forces there. I attacked and then cleared them out in a clockwise fashion from the enemy's side of the river. I made it okay about half-way down the East/North bank of the river until I ran into endless waves of spawning enemy forces. It was seriously wearing down my best units until I realized that I needed to pull them back to the other side of the river and defend those choke point river crossings instead of taking the fight to them. Barely extracted my forces without losing a unit, but it was a close thing. Must admit it required a couple of reloads in between. Once I defended from "my side" of the river it went better. Lost the one center victory hex that is on the east bank, but manged to take it back in time. Plus, the AI began to spawn and attack the north again, but that was much weaker and was near enough to the end that I was able to hold fast with the garrison Nationalist forces.

Next time I am not going to be so aggressive, a tactic that usually served me well in PC1. Instead, I think I'll focus on securing my side of the river, and reacting to wherever the AI launches new attacks once I figure out where those are going to be. They won't be hitting everywhere at once again like they do early in the scenario, so it's doable.

P5138
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by P5138 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:14 pm

I started the scenario with 4000+ prestige and ended with 1000, but I didn't lose any important units. This strategy definitely still needs some work, but here's how my first Ebro foray went:

The first two turns I had the AI on Attack, but after that I kept them on Defense until nearer the end.

My plan was to focus my defense on any VP that was on my side of the river, and only push over if there was a lull. With that in Mind, my main force would protect: Ribarroja, Flix/Asco, and Mora de Ebro. The Italians would cover Benisanet, Miravet/Rasquera, and Benifallet. I brought enough artillery to be able to have one permanently at every crossing, except Mora de Ebro and Benisanet. They would have to share. I had an 88 covering Flix/Asco and my heavy artillery in the hills there, and the other AA was directly at Flix. I planned to use fighters to clear the air in the south.

It didn't work. Too many fighters were in the Air. Even with AA Veteran, it wasn't clearing up. by turn 20 or so, my Stukas were pulled back, one of them at 1HP, the other at 4HP.
I tried to shift forces up north to push through, but by the Republican airfield, a wave of Infantry and T26's came and pushed my advance back. I tried the same thing at Asco, but I had to pull that one back too. The enemy advance also brought in enough tanks that they broke through at Flix, but I was able to set up a defensive line just east of it. Asco got surrounded by recons in the trees, and the AI never tried to attack into the VP. I shifted my Breda, a AAA, and the a Recon unit down to protect Miravet from the Resquera crossing.

By the last five or six turns I decided to use the Italian units in far south to run a diversionary push. The Benifallet crossing was clear until the first village .They got up to the airfield on that flank before being killed, but they diverted enough resources from Miravet, that I could pull back my core forces into the mountains. I left the remaining italians on the Southern crossings to act as speed bumps. In the end I was able to finish the mission holding onto Fayon, Ribarroja, Asco, Miravet (barely), and Benifallet, losing 1 Pak and around 3000-4000 prestige from repairs (mostly from the Miravet artillery).

My next time on Ebro will have a more focused force in the north breaking through early. I'll leave the Italians in the south, but will give them more AAA and better artillery. I could probably also make a sustained push in the South, at least to clear out the artillery. Without their artillery, they have no way to really break across the river.

Though this next time, I'm also not going to have the Verdeja or I-16's. I've decided to only take the PzIIA, and Galland, so that I can have enough Commendation Points without using that boost in the middle. Nor will I have AA Veteran, since I'm doing this run through with fewer perk points.

Vorskl
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by Vorskl » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:52 pm

adiekmann wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:10 pm
I have only completed the map once - and barely made it.

I tried to strengthen the far north by concentrating my forces there. I attacked and then cleared them out in a clockwise fashion from the enemy's side of the river. I made it okay about half-way down the East/North bank of the river until I ran into endless waves of spawning enemy forces. It was seriously wearing down my best units until I realized that I needed to pull them back to the other side of the river and defend those choke point river crossings instead of taking the fight to them. Barely extracted my forces without losing a unit, but it was a close thing. Must admit it required a couple of reloads in between. Once I defended from "my side" of the river it went better. Lost the one center victory hex that is on the east bank, but manged to take it back in time. Plus, the AI began to spawn and attack the north again, but that was much weaker and was near enough to the end that I was able to hold fast with the garrison Nationalist forces.

Next time I am not going to be so aggressive, a tactic that usually served me well in PC1. Instead, I think I'll focus on securing my side of the river, and reacting to wherever the AI launches new attacks once I figure out where those are going to be. They won't be hitting everywhere at once again like they do early in the scenario, so it's doable.
You have to raid the opposite side of the river, otherwise much more superior Soviet 122 and 155 mm guns placed on hills will decimate you.

adiekmann
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by adiekmann » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:21 am

Vorskl wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:52 pm
adiekmann wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:10 pm
I have only completed the map once - and barely made it.

I tried to strengthen the far north by concentrating my forces there. I attacked and then cleared them out in a clockwise fashion from the enemy's side of the river. I made it okay about half-way down the East/North bank of the river until I ran into endless waves of spawning enemy forces. It was seriously wearing down my best units until I realized that I needed to pull them back to the other side of the river and defend those choke point river crossings instead of taking the fight to them. Barely extracted my forces without losing a unit, but it was a close thing. Must admit it required a couple of reloads in between. Once I defended from "my side" of the river it went better. Lost the one center victory hex that is on the east bank, but manged to take it back in time. Plus, the AI began to spawn and attack the north again, but that was much weaker and was near enough to the end that I was able to hold fast with the garrison Nationalist forces.

Next time I am not going to be so aggressive, a tactic that usually served me well in PC1. Instead, I think I'll focus on securing my side of the river, and reacting to wherever the AI launches new attacks once I figure out where those are going to be. They won't be hitting everywhere at once again like they do early in the scenario, so it's doable.
You have to raid the opposite side of the river, otherwise much more superior Soviet 122 and 155 mm guns placed on hills will decimate you.
Yes, good point. I haven't replayed it yet. Perhaps I still need to take out some of that artillery on those hills and then hightail it back over the river to defend. Maybe what I did was half right.

P5138
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Re: SCW Ebro - need ideas

Post by P5138 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:48 am

Vorskl wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:52 pm
You have to raid the opposite side of the river, otherwise much more superior Soviet 122 and 155 mm guns placed on hills will decimate you.
This is definitely one of my plans for Ebro on my current campaign. The furthest north and furthest south crossings seem to be relatively easy to break through, so they could be used to flank a good portion of the the bigger batteries. The direct center crossing (Benisanet) is also fairly lightly attacked, and may be another spearhead point.

My first run, I just wasn't expecting such a major barrage, and thought my Stukas could whittle down whatever would be coming. Boy, was I wrong.

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