Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

A new story begins...
The sequel to a real classic: Panzer Corps is back!

Moderators: Panzer Corps 2 Moderators, Panzer Corps 2 Moderators

Post Reply
Hexaboo
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:08 am

Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by Hexaboo » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:15 pm

Does the Aiming Assistance hero trait work at all in planes? I figured it could work well with fighters, because they tend to work in groups destroying the enemy air force (i.e. give one fighter the hero, and let the rest benefit from it); however, when you attack with a fighter that's supposed to get the bonus, the game doesn't show the combat bonus icon you normally see with Aiming Assistance. The same is true for bombers, as far as I've seen.

The odd thing is that Galland has Aiming Assistance; the trait clearly is supposed to work, does this mean that the game actually applies this bonus in planes, just without indicating it?
Last edited by Hexaboo on Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nexusno2000
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes?

Post by nexusno2000 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:02 pm

Doesn't work with planes, never did.

AFAIK also applies to Leadership.
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

Hexaboo
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:08 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes?

Post by Hexaboo » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:54 pm

Yeah, just checked, neither works with planes (this example is next to a Galland fighter):
(Bf 109B) attacks (I-16)
Main Stage
Attacker's Initiative:
Base Initiative: 4
'Operational Initiative' unit trait: +1
Attacker's Effective Initiative: 5
Base Accuracy: 50
Penalty from enemy unit's experience: -8
Proximity to base bonus: 0
Effective Accuracy: 42%
So, what's the point of Galland having two traits that don't work with the only two classes he can be assigned to?

Is he going to grow out of crappy traits as the Axis Operations continue, like Rudel did in PzC1?

nexusno2000
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by nexusno2000 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:21 pm

It's a bug. Probably too minor to be fixed earlier, then forgotten.

Suddenly it became relevant, as the first unique hero don't work.
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 7251
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by Kerensky » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:27 pm

The nail that sticks out gets the hammer. Galland definitely put a spotlight on those particular traits though. It's funny that even with those issues, he still is a great hero for the other attributes he has. Probably going to be crazy OP once he starts pumping up adjacent units. lol

Hexaboo
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:08 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by Hexaboo » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:33 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:27 pm
The nail that sticks out gets the hammer. Galland definitely put a spotlight on those particular traits though. It's funny that even with those issues, he still is a great hero for the other attributes he has. Probably going to be crazy OP once he starts pumping up adjacent units. lol
Oh absolutely, the Legendary trait alone is a nice boost at the Ebro, and a good reason to go slow in Catalonia and Madrid. :D

adiekmann
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by adiekmann » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:45 am

I believe it isn't completely broken, however. I noticed something during my last play through of Madrid '39. I welcome anybody to test it and see if I'm right.

I had two bf 109s on opposite sides of a Communist fighter. One of those 109s had Galland. When I attacked him first with Galland the results where less advantageous than when I attacked the enemy plane with the second 109 with no heroes on it. Both had almost identical amounts of experience and were OS to 12. The heroless 109 inflicted greater damage. I redid it several times and it consistently did and predicted a better return.

Why? With Galland, his plane should have had the higher attack value and thereby inflicted more damage. Well, the only explanation I could come up with is that the aiming assistance works, but ONLY with regards to other aircraft, not ground units.

Am I right, or did I simply discover what everybody already knows? Otherwise I can't figure out why that was the case. No AA was nearby or involved.

Hexaboo
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:08 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by Hexaboo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:24 am

adiekmann wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:45 am
I had two bf 109s on opposite sides of a Communist fighter. One of those 109s had Galland. When I attacked him first with Galland the results where less advantageous than when I attacked the enemy plane with the second 109 with no heroes on it. Both had almost identical amounts of experience and were OS to 12. The heroless 109 inflicted greater damage. I redid it several times and it consistently did and predicted a better return.

Why? With Galland, his plane should have had the higher attack value and thereby inflicted more damage. Well, the only explanation I could come up with is that the aiming assistance works, but ONLY with regards to other aircraft, not ground units.
That's the point, these traits don't work with aircraft (as in aircraft giving bonuses to other aircraft), at least not always, apparently. Could what you've described be due to the 'Proximity to base' bonus? (Press L to see the detailed prediction).

nexusno2000
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by nexusno2000 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:17 am

Of the bonuses are not in the log, they are not applied.
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

adiekmann
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by adiekmann » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:38 am

nexusno2000 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:17 am
Of the bonuses are not in the log, they are not applied.
Yeah, unfortunately that was the first place I looked when I wrote that post but I don't have that save file any longer to check.

adiekmann
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by adiekmann » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:41 am

Hexaboo wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:24 am
adiekmann wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:45 am
I had two bf 109s on opposite sides of a Communist fighter. One of those 109s had Galland. When I attacked him first with Galland the results where less advantageous than when I attacked the enemy plane with the second 109 with no heroes on it. Both had almost identical amounts of experience and were OS to 12. The heroless 109 inflicted greater damage. I redid it several times and it consistently did and predicted a better return.

Why? With Galland, his plane should have had the higher attack value and thereby inflicted more damage. Well, the only explanation I could come up with is that the aiming assistance works, but ONLY with regards to other aircraft, not ground units.
That's the point, these traits don't work with aircraft (as in aircraft giving bonuses to other aircraft), at least not always, apparently. Could what you've described be due to the 'Proximity to base' bonus? (Press L to see the detailed prediction).
I have the save file after the action already took place. And no, Galland's plane is actually one hex closer to the nearest friendly airfield than the second 109 is.

adiekmann
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by adiekmann » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:59 am

adiekmann wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:38 am
nexusno2000 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:17 am
Of the bonuses are not in the log, they are not applied.
Yeah, unfortunately that was the first place I looked when I wrote that post but I don't have that save file any longer to check.
Moved on to the next turn and set up similar situation with same units. Examined the combat prediction log...and alas, you guys are right. No Galland bonuses being applied other than the +2 initiative and attack. :( Will never know what happened in the turn before...

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 7251
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by Kerensky » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:14 pm

Next patch will hopefully resolve this lingering issue! :mrgreen:

Image

And yes, now Galland really does assist ALL adjacent units. Even adjacent ground units. So he is a super cheerleader utility unit that will be fantastic in crowded battlefields. Buffs for everyone! :D

adiekmann
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by adiekmann » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:21 am

Kerensky wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:14 pm
Next patch will hopefully resolve this lingering issue! :mrgreen:

Image

And yes, now Galland really does assist ALL adjacent units. Even adjacent ground units. So he is a super cheerleader utility unit that will be fantastic in crowded battlefields. Buffs for everyone! :D
That is AWESOME news!!!

Can you let leak if the support fire issue was also fixed in SCW with said patch?

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 7251
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by Kerensky » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:47 am

There should be some SCW related changes in the pipeline, but I don't know about support fire issues. It's not really SCW related, SCW just put a spotlight on it. 'Share support fire' is most definitely turned on in the editor though...

KesaAnna
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:59 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by KesaAnna » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:24 am

Kerensky wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:14 pm


Image

Off - topic question ---

In the above screenshot ;

What is the name of the camo on the Bf 109 on the left ?

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 7251
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by Kerensky » Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:08 am

KesaAnna wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:24 am
Off - topic question ---

In the above screenshot ;

What is the name of the camo on the Bf 109 on the left ?
Camo half tone 2

It's one of the new ones they added post launch, way at the very bottom of the camo listing.

KesaAnna
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:59 am

Re: Aiming Assistance in Planes? [Ain't Galland weird?]

Post by KesaAnna » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:13 am

Kerensky wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:08 am
Camo half tone 2

It's one of the new ones they added post launch, way at the very bottom of the camo listing.
Thanks . :D

With the WW I " Flying Circus " in mind , I try to give my fighter and tactical bomber aircraft distinctive , garish , eye - catching color schemes. ( one practical benefit of this is that one aircraft unit can NEVER be mistaken for another unit , even when you are zoomed so far out that even strat bombers could be confused with fighters. )

But I MIGHT be running out of loud , garish color schemes ?

After reading the thread about the Battle of the Ebro , I was clued - in that there would be endless waves of Republican aircraft at the Ebro ---

--- The perfect opportunity to train up many units of fighter aircraft !

So , in addition to the three fighters I already had , I fielded four more at the Ebro , for a total of seven fighter units.

All my core units have a name , a distinctive insignia or device ( at least in fan art ) , and , like I said , at least the Fighter and tactical bomber aircraft have quite loud and distinctive color schemes.
Kerensky wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:08 am
Camo half tone 2

It's one of the new ones they added post launch, way at the very bottom of the camo listing.
Lol , IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO camo halftone 2.

One of the fighters I bought at the Ebro I gave the name , " Cirque " ( circus ) , their device or logo is a clown face , and I gave it the Camo Halftone 2 color scheme.

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps 2”