AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

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Tassadar
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AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by Tassadar » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:35 pm

Opening up a threat to discuss unique heroes possible to get in the AO DLC. Mostly to figure out interesting uses for them, what equipment they can get assigned to with good results and possible combinations with other heroes. There have been some mentions of it in other threads, but I was thinking about compiling the discussion to a more specific list. With just SCW and 1939 for now there is a limited amount of options, just 3 too chose from, but as the pool will grow, so will the combination potential.

For obvious reasons this will contain spoilers.

Starting off with a few thoughts of my own:

Adolf Galland - I really struggle to justify putting him on anything other than a Bf 109 and later on just the best possible fighter there is. The extra attack and initiative means he should be the one shooting first. I was granted a Crippling Blow hero in 1939 and he would go great with this approach, but ended up not assigning him to the same squadron to diversify the good "first strike" fighters into two separate ones for bigger maps. It's possible to put him on a tactical bomber as well, but even on a Bf 110 it seems wasteful. Even with all the bonuses, aiming assistance and leadership, these "active" tactical bombers will mostly mop up crippled planes anyway or attack ground targets, so I don't see a reason to use him there.

Albert Kerscher - instant addition to the Verdeja 2 tank, makes a real powerhouse in 1939. In my playthrough combined with a Rapid Fire 1.5x and AT Support Heroes resulted in a monstrous unit versus any early game tank. Obviously should perform better on hard target specialized units, so likely to end up on a Panzer III later than a Panzer IV, but the bonuses are so good that he will over-perform on any type of unit. His Tank Killer makes him a viable option for AT units as well, but the early game ones are not too amazing and Aggressive Counterattack seems a bit wasted on a AT unit, but I could see the potential of using him on an Elephant or some other very high hard attack machine for 1 shot kills.

Oleh Dir - by far the most flexible hero of the three, with multiple great applications. Bonuses are useful on any infantry type (aside from maybe bridge engineers since who would want these guys to be shooting at anything that's over 1 strength or not fully supressed...). On grenadiers and pioneers they help reduce the penalty of decreased walking speed, which is extremely useful, second only to Fast Deployment heroes. On cavalry this gives a unit with almost recon car speed which is just silly. However, my favorite usage is the same as it was in Grand Campaign in Panzer Corps 1 - gebirgsjäger unit with no transport. This results in a highly mobile, all-terrain infantry that can go places no other unit can reach, mostly to take down artillery or AA/AT guns and allow to break defensive formations from another angle that would not be possible otherwise. Of course gebirgsjäger stats are much weaker, but that was never an issue for me, since I used the unit for such specialized tasks, so losses were always minimal.

imperatorial_Imp
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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by imperatorial_Imp » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:21 pm

Not sure, if this is the right place to ask but during one of the AO 39 poland battles, I got a message pop-up about a recon pilot complaining, reminding me of the whole Rudel story in PC1.

I did not actually have a recon plane at that time, I switched it to the He45 back in spain and am still using it now since it is a really cheap attack plane that the AI seems to ignore all the time, it has the highest score of all units... anyway, my question:

are you sure, Rudel won't pop up in one of the following scenarios? I recruited a new recon plane now (Fi156) but I am not sure, it will actually trigger. On the other hand, shouldn't the still exisiting original unit trigger an event, even if it is now equipped with the He45?

adiekmann
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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by adiekmann » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:05 pm

imperatorial_Imp wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:21 pm
Not sure, if this is the right place to ask but during one of the AO 39 poland battles, I got a message pop-up about a recon pilot complaining, reminding me of the whole Rudel story in PC1.

I did not actually have a recon plane at that time, I switched it to the He45 back in spain and am still using it now since it is a really cheap attack plane that the AI seems to ignore all the time, it has the highest score of all units... anyway, my question:

are you sure, Rudel won't pop up in one of the following scenarios? I recruited a new recon plane now (Fi156) but I am not sure, it will actually trigger. On the other hand, shouldn't the still exisiting original unit trigger an event, even if it is now equipped with the He45?
I can only guess based on history and Panzer Corps 1. The same kind of thing played out. Now, in PC1, you got Uber Rudel in a Stuka in I believe it was the 2nd Russian scenario. Maybe the first. Can't remember.

Anyway, you HAD to have his recon plane (that you got in the first Poland map) deployed or his Stuka won't show up. So it seems to hint at that in AO39, but I don't expect him to show until AO41. Don't know that for sure, but point is you needn't deploy your recon aircraft now and worry that you'll miss him.

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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by Kerensky » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:32 pm

Yes the goal with historical Grand Campaign heroes was to make them unique and powerful, without making them game breaking combo types. Sorry Overwhelming Attack/Envelopment/Scavenger... you'll have to make your own combo hero it won't be preset on a historical one. ;)

Oleh Dir has the extra unique power of being the only source of +movement that exists anywhere so far. +movement (+speed in LUA) is not a hero that can be generated from the start of scenario random roll. Definitely nice, because despite not being attack orientated, everyone recognizes +movement as an awesome ability, especially on the class that needs it most: infantry.

I actually put my Oleh Dir into a Grenadier detachment. Because they are the only grenadiers I use, because their slow speed makes them too hard to use despite their improved combat stats, Oleh Dir gets the bonus of being uniquely visible at a quick glance of the map. Where is my Oleh, oh yea just look for the lone Grenadier in a sea of units. That big MG39/MG42 stands out nicely :mrgreen:

When we get to next DLC... people already are cluing into the return of Rudel. But there are plans to have more than just the same heroes of the Grand Campaign returning so.... we'll see!

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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by Buffalohump » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:17 am

Kerensky wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:32 pm
Yes the goal with historical Grand Campaign heroes was to make them unique and powerful, without making them game breaking combo types. Sorry Overwhelming Attack/Envelopment/Scavenger... you'll have to make your own combo hero it won't be preset on a historical one. ;)

Oleh Dir has the extra unique power of being the only source of +movement that exists anywhere so far. +movement (+speed in LUA) is not a hero that can be generated from the start of scenario random roll. Definitely nice, because despite not being attack orientated, everyone recognizes +movement as an awesome ability, especially on the class that needs it most: infantry.

I actually put my Oleh Dir into a Grenadier detachment. Because they are the only grenadiers I use, because their slow speed makes them too hard to use despite their improved combat stats, Oleh Dir gets the bonus of being uniquely visible at a quick glance of the map. Where is my Oleh, oh yea just look for the lone Grenadier in a sea of units. That big MG39/MG42 stands out nicely :mrgreen:

When we get to next DLC... people already are cluing into the return of Rudel. But there are plans to have more than just the same heroes of the Grand Campaign returning so.... we'll see!
May we perhaps see Gunther Rall? I remember him from Wings and other shows and found and used him in Panzer Corps.

Regards,

imperatorial_Imp
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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by imperatorial_Imp » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:27 am

Kerensky wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:32 pm
Yes the goal with historical Grand Campaign heroes was to make them unique and powerful, without making them game breaking combo types. Sorry Overwhelming Attack/Envelopment/Scavenger... you'll have to make your own combo hero it won't be preset on a historical one. ;)

Oleh Dir has the extra unique power of being the only source of +movement that exists anywhere so far. +movement (+speed in LUA) is not a hero that can be generated from the start of scenario random roll. Definitely nice, because despite not being attack orientated, everyone recognizes +movement as an awesome ability, especially on the class that needs it most: infantry.

I actually put my Oleh Dir into a Grenadier detachment. Because they are the only grenadiers I use, because their slow speed makes them too hard to use despite their improved combat stats, Oleh Dir gets the bonus of being uniquely visible at a quick glance of the map. Where is my Oleh, oh yea just look for the lone Grenadier in a sea of units. That big MG39/MG42 stands out nicely :mrgreen:

When we get to next DLC... people already are cluing into the return of Rudel. But there are plans to have more than just the same heroes of the Grand Campaign returning so.... we'll see!
I did the same actually :) Put him on my only grenadier squad to help it move about, in PC1 I converted Oleh Dirs unit into either Grens or Pios, I don't recall, but having that movement range is immensely powerful since you can "charge" right into action rather than having to deploy by truck close to the target and then engage in the next turn. However with the encirclement mechanics, I find it a lot easier to siege than before even though I have yet to use split, since I am always at my unit cap or even beyond.


If Rudel shows up again, can you please trigger the event with any recon unit OR make a check if the original recon unit is still alive regardless of its equipment? I'd like to keep my He45 as long as possible/feasible and neither He45 (nor He123) are recruitable in AO 39 anymore. I'd like to do some roleplaying and try to keep at least one unit/squadron of He123 till crimea '44 like II./SG2 did IRL, let's see how it goes :)


Perhaps for 1940 or 41, we could get a special Bf109E attack plane, it replaced the Hs123 IRL as the primary ground attack plane in Schlachtgeschwader 1 (SchlG1, not to be confused with the later formed SG1) until receiving Fw190A and F in 1942/43.

I suppose gameplay-wise, it would be similar to the Bf110 so it wouldn't add that much but I more options are always nice :) Generally it would be like a 109E but with less initiative but more soft and hard attack?


If you are looking for unique and lesser known aces to add, perhaps consider him for 1944:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Lambert

A unit of 190F equipped with him could fend for himself and still provide CAS despite Soviet air superiority



P.S. love the Azul unit! Just what I was hoping for.

nexusno2000
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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by nexusno2000 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:02 am

Rudel will get your Il-2, no? :D
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adiekmann
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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by adiekmann » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:14 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:02 am
Rudel will get your Il-2, no? :D
No, Rudel dreams of flying this over the Eastern Front! :P
Image

Kerensky
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Re: AO unique heroes thread [SPOILERS]

Post by Kerensky » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:17 pm

Funny you should bring up the A-10. Rudel actually has a real world link to that exact aircraft.

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