Hero abilities tier list

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Tassadar
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Hero abilities tier list

Post by Tassadar » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:25 pm

First of all, a shout out to Fulgrim_AUT who extracted a lot of hero trait info and whose post here helped me get things done.

People like best off, top 10's and other such rankings, so I prepared a personal tier list of hero abilities for units. Since I obviously did not roll all of possible heroes in campaigns yet this is not only based on the ones I actually got, but also on some theory. Feel free to disagree on the ranks and share your own ones - I 'm really curious about different experiences and ideas. :)

Since I based the post on Fulgrims list, which is quite old, some names/functionality might not be accurate anymore.

S Tier - insanely powerful in every situation

Double Attack - Unit gets 2 attack actions per turn. - godly ability as on best tactical bombers you can basically one turn kill targets, but works on fighters, tanks, infantry, basically anything. It's almost like having another free copy of a unit.
Fast Deployment - Can unmount from organic transport and fire after movement - absolutely changes the way artillery and infantry can operate, providing huge movement savings.
No Retaliation - Enemy units don't shoot back when attacked by a unit with this trait. - infantry with this trait can capture cities with little or no support. Very powerful.
Rapid Fire 2x - Makes 2x more shots than normal and consequently deals 2x damage to the target. This trait does not affect ammo spending, the unit still consumes 1 ammo per attack. - convinced to move up a tier in line with Double Attack being very similar.
Steamroller - Any kill triggers an overrun - has to be earned the hard way, but it then becomes a powerhouse, chaining kills regardless of terrain type.
Zero Slots - Unit slot cost is reduced to zero - arguably the best hero in the game. Applied to a 21 cm artillery or some other slot intense unit can allow for 2-3 more units, adding half-tracks for all your infantry or bringing all the bridge engineers, recon planes and other 1 slot support you ever dreamed of.

A Tier - make game changing differences for units

Butcher - +5 attack against infantry units - on units with high soft attack it can be insane, especially on tanks where it further helps trigger multiple overruns.
Camouflage - Can only be detected by recons or adjacent ground units - AT and AA support units love this due to AI limitations.
Crippling Blow - +5 attack against full strength units - very universal attack bonus, great for tactical bombers.
Double Support - Provides support fire twice for each enemy attack - whatever this unit supports will almost never be actually efficiently attacked.
Envelopment - Prevents enemy units from retreating, so they surrender instead. - more prestige is always welcome, as is easier unit capturing, especially fro those who do it on higher difficulty.
Exterminator - +5 attack against units below 50% strength - I've heard you like overrun, so I've added more overrun to your overrun.
Hit And Run - When attacking, enemy units with lower initiative do not shoot back - everything that minimizes losses so efficiently is a godsend.
Ignores Entrenchment - Ignores enemy entrenchment (unit's accuracy is not affected by enemy's entrenchment level) - with this any grenadier becomes almost pioneers. Really powerful due to the extra stats on grenadiers.
Legendary - Generates 20 prestige per turn - that's a lot of prestige. The in-game description mentions 50, but it is actually 20 (thanks Agarwaen!).
Lethal Attack - Half of suppression caused by this unit is converted to kills - AA's best friend. Not so amazing with AA veteran trait.
Lightning Attack - Immune to all types of support fire - saves a lot of tactical preparation before attacking.
On The Roll - For each enemy unit killed in the current battle, this unit gets +1 attack till the end of the battle - those overruns just got out of control even more. It just requires a specific tanks to work.
Overrun - Can destroy ("overrun") weakened enemy units without spending move or attack actions. The way it works is, after an overrun attack, move and attack actions of the unit will be replenished. - huge ability and giving it to units other than tanks can be amazing.
Rapid Fire 1.5x - Makes 1.5x more shots than normal and consequently deals 1.5x damage to the target. This trait does not affect ammo spending, the unit still consumes 1 ammo per attack. - great bonus, that's a tank's best friend for overrun purposes.
Reduced Slots - Unit slot cost is reduced by 50%- can save enough prestige to field another unit or two. Ranked A only since there's an even better variant.
Scavenger - Captures 2x equipment from surrendering enemies - in theory needs to be actively used to capture units, so not something I'd be willing to rank S, as I'm just doing the capturing as a side activity anyway.
Vigilant - Prevents enemies from using unit's Close Defense rating - after a bit of digging in stats, it does make combat much, much easier and safer for any tank.

B Tier - efficient heroes that provide measurable bonuses

Aiming Assistance - +10% accuracy to all adjacent friendly units - accuracy is king and turning another unit into a semi-recon can quickly add up over the course of a scenario and campaign.
Artillery Support - Provides support fire to adjacent friendly units attacked by enemy's unarmored units (with 'Soft' target type). - very useful since any form of support can really help units from being exposed to major losses, but has to be put on a unit that is going to be actively supporting infantry anyway (Panzer IIIN for example?). On largest guns that just have Counter Battery Fire seems like a waste actually, since I tend to put those on hills or further back, so the ability would not trigger.
AT Support - Provides support fire to adjacent friendly units attacked by enemy's armored units (with 'Hard' target type).- same as Artillery Support, with the added bonus of working nicely on towed artillery early game and on tanks perfectly the entire game.
Bridging Unit - Acts as a bridge when positioned on a river - now that's some major mobility bonus for the rest of the army! The only reason I'm not putting it higher is because not all maps are structured in a way to utilize a unit like that. But then you might just not deploy it for such scenarios.
Close Combat - Has access to enemy unit's Close Defense rating when fighting in close terrain. - - quite an improvement, but armored units don't want to fight in Close Terrain anyway when possible.
Counter Battery Fire - Will fire at any attacking artillery unit within its firing range. - there are good artillery units that do not have this and could certainly benefit from the ability.
Famous - Generates 10 prestige per turn - that's a lot of free prestige. Gets better the higher the difficulty and the longer the campaign. For obvious reason it's best gained early. The in-game description mentions 20, but it is actually 10 (thanks Agarwaen!).
Field Repairs - Restores one point of strength every turn the unit did not attack. Applies to vehicles. - prestige savings when moving from one target cluster to another. Not that much to remove replacement entirely, but will help heal those 1-2 power hits. Also, by the end of a scenario with forces spread out, it is not impossible to heal even more if there is not much to attack.
First Aid - Restores one point of strength every turn the unit did not attack. Applies to infantry. - same as Field Repairs, but arguably better, since infantry is more prone to damage.
First Strike - Unit always attacks first - I would prefer them to not shoot back at all.
Flag Killer - +5 attack when attacking enemy flags - infantry best friend.
Ignores ZOC - Ignores zone of control (ZOC) projected by enemy units when moving - sweet mobility add-on to any vehicle.
Liberator - 2x prestige for all flags captured by this unit - another prestige generator, but a bit less reliable than most. The high roll on a capture streak for recons is great however.
Phased Movement - Can move in steps within its movement point limit. This ability also allows the unit to sneak through enemy's zone of control. - best tank movement bonus.
Precision Weapon - +20% base accuracy - great, but gets less impactful as experience grows.
Provocator - Adjacent enemies attacking other friendly unit will attack this unit instead - best way to escort artillery and bombers. Also a way to set up semi-ambushes.
Recon - Enemy units adjacent to recon are attacked by other friendly units with +10% accuracy (+3% for each of recon's stars) - adds up nicely, more recons are always welcome.
Shock Tactics - When attacking, pins enemy unit in place by destroying all its movement points. - great for capturing, but can be a liability sometimes when you want the unit to retreat.
Tank Killer - +5 attack against tanks - always good, on any type of unit, but for obvious reasons tanks, AT and tactical bombers use it best. In AO 1939 don't be surprised in the Bzura scenario however with a particular opponent who can surprise panzers like crazy... As the name suggests it works against tanks, not all hard targets.
Unyielding - Unit cannot be suppressed by enemy fire - quite good for taking out fortified cities and other close terrain positions behind an artillery wall.

C Tier - situationaly useful, does not hurt to have them in a unit

Ambusher - Always triggers an ambush when attacked - amazing defensive bonus, but the question is will the unit get attacked in the first place, so not reliable enough.
Bunker Killer - +5 attack against structures - very nice in base game, but in DLC most structures are to limit access to allied deployment zones and not actually meant to be attacked... so far by AO 1939...
Cheap Replacements - Replacements in battle cost as on deployment phase - can save quite some prestige, but I prefer just not to incur many losses.
City Fighter - Combat bonus in city terrain - map dependent.
Combat Luck - Combat results can never be worse than predicted - depends on settings. I found it to be useful on fighters to minimize the need of spending time on replacements.
Distraction - Enemy units next to this unit do not provide support fire - for fighters to allow safe bombardment and maybe recons or infantry to disable AT guns.
Double Mass Attack - When participation in Mass Attack, contributes double effect. - while nice, it's still mostly just the case of initiative, so not that critical.
Double Move - Units gets 2 move actions per turn, without increasing the number of movement points. - good for tanks as it help reach targets otherwise blocked or exploit formations. However, this should already be the role of Recons most of the time.
Entrenchment Killer 2/3/4 - Destroys 2/3/4 points of entrenchment with every attack - artillery already does the same thing and other units aside from planes would get shot back. For fighters that after getting air dominance or at least superiority ten to get bored and start looking for easy targets and also for tactical bombers as there not always will be a viable exposed unit to take down.
Expert Recon - Provides 3x accuracy bonus on adjacent enemy units - not tested, however the bonus seems a bit overkill.
Expert Support - +20% accuracy when providing support fire - quite a large bonus, can see the crippling potential on high power support units.
Fast Learner - 2x faster experience growth - there are units such as fighters that are notorious for slow experience growth, helps new units catch up to the rest of the core.
Fearsome Reputation - All adjacent enemy units get +3 suppression at the beginning of their turn - good siege/surrender ability, but since you need to stay next to the unit, it's not always going to affect multiple ones when it is most effective.
Fierce Fighter - +1 attack for each adjacent enemy unit - requires some foresight in unit placement, but can nicely add up.
Leadership - +1 initiative to all adjacent friendly units - will come into action often, but with a tiny benefit.
Low Altitude Attack - Anti-Air units with this trait can access Close Defense of attacking aircraft with the same trait. - can provide significant upgrade to 88mm AA guns, but it all depends on the scenario and situation.
Overwhelming Attack - Any damage to enemy units is enough to force the to retreat. - seems great, but can sometimes be liability more than a benefit.
River Assault - Ignore combat penalties from rivers - bridge engineers are weak anyway and other units should for the most part try avoiding rivers, but it's often not possible, so this has the potential to come up often.
Superior Maneuver - Gets +1 initiative for each point of movement speed advantage over the enemy - for recons and fast tanks, but targets it works against will rarely shoot first anyway.

D Tier - very marginal usefulness

Aggressive Counterattack - +3 attack when defending - can help on tactical bombers with better air attack (Bf 110), or just as a general buff to any unit, but that's just a basic passive.
Avenger - Gets attack bonus for each point of lost strength - you really do not want to take losses and even if you do, you probably do not want to be attacking with a severely wounded unit. Might work nicely on overstrengthened units and... armored trains that attack as a single unit regardless of damage.
Evasive - Enemy units get -10% accuracy when shooting at this unit - slightly smaller losses, but that's not really too amazing.
Fast Rebase - Aircraft does not spend movement actions on rebase - seems amazing at first, but then again, how often aircraft actually rebase? It's mostly 2, maybe 3 times per mission. That's 2-3 turns saved thanks to that, but is it really that critical?
Fighter Support - Provides support fire against enemy fighters attacking friendly bombers. Will also intercept enemy bombers attacking ground units in adjacent hexes. - air attack of tactical bombers on German side is not that amazing, but this has potential in an allied campaign.
Ignore Mass Attack - Immunity to Mass Attack - will come in handy once in a blue moon.
No Retreat - Unit never retreats - can sometimes help hold the front line, but rare to mater at all.
Prudent - Gets defense bonus for each point of lost strength - meh. There are some tricks to that, but did not find this too impact anything much so far.
Readiness - Strikes first when defending - seems like only a thing on low defense high attack AT units (Marders for example)
Resilient - Cannot lose more than half strength in one go - very situational, but I can imagine how it may save a unit at least once per game.
Skilled Recon - Provides 2x accuracy bonus on adjacent enemy units - has to go D - I ranked Expert Recon at C.
Skilled Support - +10% accuracy when providing support fire - one rank below expert variant, can be received as part of the awards system for units.
Smart Entrenchment - Gets 2x bonus from entrenchment - in some defensive conditions, maybe.
Survivor - As long as this unit has more than 1 strength, it will always survive enemy attack - nice, but mostly earned by messing up and having your unit attacked multiple times. :)
Tenacious Defender - +1 defense for each adjacent enemy unit - too situational for my tastes, unless maybe for artillery just for the sake of it and recons that might get surrounded.
Thorough Preparation - Initiative bonus +5..+1 on the first five turns of every mission - good for those fast breakthroughs, but I prefer permanent bonuses.

F Tier - probably better traded for prestige...

Fast Entrenchment - Gets 2x entrenchment speed - I mean, in defensive scenarios where you need to relocate quickly... maybe...
Fast Retreat - +2 movement points when unit's strength is 33% from maximum - just no.
Ferocious Defense - Entrenchment of this unit cannot be ignored - how often do you realistically expect to defend against AI pioneers?
Learns From Mistakes - 3x experience for suffered casualties - ugh... Fast Learner is nice, this is just painfully slow and hard to reliably get any usage of.
No Surrender - Unit never surrenders - it's much better to just avoid positioning units badly.
Safe Transit - Takes only 50% damage when caught in organic transport - or it's easier to just escort transports properly.
Sixth Sense - Immune to ambushes - if I were the AI, it would be S tier for me. :)

Untested - I had not encountered them, they do not work, or I have too little data to justify a rank

AA Support - Provides support fire against air to ground attacks. Will shoot at any fighters and bombers attacking friendly ground units within its firing range. - does not sound too useful, air attack of non-AA units is not too amazing
Aimed Shot - not working
All Weather Combat - not working, but in theory amazing
Block Supply - not working
Deep Knowledge - not working
Defender Of People - not working
Evacuation - not working
Evasion - not working
Extended Support - not working
Ignore Ground State - not working
Consolidator - Can consolidate more than normal strength into a single unit, thus increasing maximum overstrength which the unit can have by +5 - so far I always took No Overstrength trait anyway, so...
Last Stand - Ignores all penalties from encirclements - if it allows to resupply as well then it's amazing. If not it's F tier. Did not roll it, so not sure.
Mine Sweeper - Instantly clears a minefield when given an attack order on minefield's hex - default for pioneers, but never saw this given on a hero. Very marginal if it appears at all.
No Supply - Unit does not require supply, and does not suffer negative effects of encirclement - if it means it also uses up no ammo, on certain units it could be insane. But I am not sure ho this is exactly treated by the game.
Overwatch - not working
Path Finder - not working
River Crossing - not working
Splitter - Unit can be split without spending an extra unit slot. Also, unit can split and merge any number of times in a single turn. - not rolled it ever - I wonder if the general trait blocks this from happening.
Suppressing Fire - Bigger part of damage done by this unit comes in the form of suppression, not kills. Each star slightly improves the chance to outright kill the target, so experienced units with this trait become more deadly. - default ability of artillery and strategic bombers, not sure if it is actually possible to roll on a hero.
Terrain Expert - not working
Last edited by Tassadar on Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:13 pm, edited 13 times in total.

nexusno2000
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by nexusno2000 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:37 pm

Lots of good here, but Vigilant so low? And Double Attack better than Rapid x2? And Engineers already ignore Entrenchment. Why waste a hero on that?
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nexusno2000
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by nexusno2000 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:39 pm

But ultimately it's the hero combos that are important.

Butcher is really nice, but if you add Vigilant on a tank with native rapid Fire x2...

So many op combos. Those should be the yardstick.
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by mkdz » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:42 pm

Some of the lower tier ones when combined with others make them amazing.

Double Move + Double Attack on an infantry or artillery is the equivalent of Fast Deployment
Double Move on bombers is also great for allowing it to attack and then move next to a fighter or to allow another bomber to come in and bomb it
Hit and Run + Overwhelming Attack on a tank makes it so that it can attack infantry in cities without any issue
Vigilant on tanks is amazing
River Assault is great on pioneers because there's always cities that sit behind a river with a bridge and this hero negates the penalties from attacking from that river
Increased Overstrength + Provocateur + Zero Slots = LOL

Tassadar
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Tassadar » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:52 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:37 pm
Lots of good here, but Vigilant so low? And Double Attack better than Rapid x2? And Engineers already ignore Entrenchment. Why waste a hero on that?
I might have ranked Vigilant a bit too low since I only rolled it once and so far did not have that much comparison with that particular hero and the bonus seems subtle, less easy to see than other ones, so perhaps that's why.

Double attack seems better for me since it can allow for more flexibility on units other than planes and tanks in terms of targeting specific units.

And as far as Ignore Entrenchment goes - Grenadiers have better stats, so the ability to upgrade Pioneers into those and still preserve that bonus results in an ever harder hitting unit. Come to think of it Azul Infantry also seems like a prime target for that hero.

And of course combinations are key, but even at the fast pace I accumulate heroes in AO, there's always some line ones that stay as a single addition. Plus for role-playing elements I prefer not to move heroes too much if I can help it.

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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Agarwaen » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:29 am

Legendary - that's a LOT of prestige.
I disagree with this being in Tier S.
Both Legendary and Famous heroes are bugged.
Legendary hero provides 20 prestige per turn, not 50 as advertised in the tooltip; while Famous provides 10/turn.
While it's certainly a nice amount of prestige, I don't think it warrants to put it in the S tier :)

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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by KesaAnna » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:32 am

Excellent !

Thank you !

In my opinion this is as useful and practical as Dalfrede's campaign trees .

I really hope they sticky this.

nexusno2000
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by nexusno2000 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:04 am

Agarwaen wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:29 am
Legendary - that's a LOT of prestige.
I disagree with this being in Tier S.
Both Legendary and Famous heroes are bugged.
Legendary hero provides 20 prestige per turn, not 50 as advertised in the tooltip; while Famous provides 10/turn.
While it's certainly a nice amount of prestige, I don't think it warrants to put it in the S tier :)
Are you sure?

At any rate, even at 50, legendary is OKisk, but not much more. Famous is shite.
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nexusno2000
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by nexusno2000 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:05 am

Tassadar wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:52 pm
nexusno2000 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:37 pm
Lots of good here, but Vigilant so low? And Double Attack better than Rapid x2? And Engineers already ignore Entrenchment. Why waste a hero on that?
I might have ranked Vigilant a bit too low since I only rolled it once and so far did not have that much comparison with that particular hero and the bonus seems subtle, less easy to see than other ones, so perhaps that's why.

Double attack seems better for me since it can allow for more flexibility on units other than planes and tanks in terms of targeting specific units.

And as far as Ignore Entrenchment goes - Grenadiers have better stats, so the ability to upgrade Pioneers into those and still preserve that bonus results in an ever harder hitting unit. Come to think of it Azul Infantry also seems like a prime target for that hero.

And of course combinations are key, but even at the fast pace I accumulate heroes in AO, there's always some line ones that stay as a single addition. Plus for role-playing elements I prefer not to move heroes too much if I can help it.
You need to think again.

You already give great value to stuff that can help in overrunning...but you do not take into account rapid fire? This is illogical. Rapid Fire x2 is the great overrun-enabler. Pair with Steamroller tank with some attack buff, max OS and...game just broke :mrgreen:
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by fluffybunnyuk » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:18 am

It all depends on the negative traits you use.
I use them all now apart from the no reinforcement one so alot of the "naff" ones in your list are like gold dust to me... like splitter,fast entrenchment,luck,initiative heroes.

With major difficulties like that, i find the best ones apart from the cheesy top tier, are ones that help multiple units like +1 initative/defense etc. Ignore entrenchment, and entrenchment killer are critically important. Without those i cant touch 100% entrenched units.
fast retreat, and no surrender on a recon car... just yes,yes,yes every time. Anything that wanders out alone is going to get hammered so bad. running away is good.
Ferocious defense great on infantry while wearing down the entrenchment. Really anything that saves money and damage is just great.

So really whats tier great is a matter of game options , and play style.

A good example is first aid... its utterly useless to me. I cant afford to sit around 10 turns waiting for an infantry unit to regenerate. So i go with multiple infantry triples, and retreat units back to base when they get down to 30% left.
You have to accept the wehr infantry will get a beating, so buff it with defense heroes, and supported by a fast entrenchment engineer, so learns from mistakes can be useful as they get a real battering early on at 1-3*.

In many ways its a completely different game to picking 1 or 2 negative traits, and some positive ones like the power 4.

Take Poland North, everything tends to be very passive, but if you pick No ZOC negative trait you'll find stuff being very aggressive ripping through your lines, and wrecking AT,AA guns. Whats important from heroes changes very fast then.

Tassadar
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Tassadar » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:18 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:05 am
Tassadar wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:52 pm
nexusno2000 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:37 pm
Lots of good here, but Vigilant so low? And Double Attack better than Rapid x2? And Engineers already ignore Entrenchment. Why waste a hero on that?
I might have ranked Vigilant a bit too low since I only rolled it once and so far did not have that much comparison with that particular hero and the bonus seems subtle, less easy to see than other ones, so perhaps that's why.

Double attack seems better for me since it can allow for more flexibility on units other than planes and tanks in terms of targeting specific units.

And as far as Ignore Entrenchment goes - Grenadiers have better stats, so the ability to upgrade Pioneers into those and still preserve that bonus results in an ever harder hitting unit. Come to think of it Azul Infantry also seems like a prime target for that hero.

And of course combinations are key, but even at the fast pace I accumulate heroes in AO, there's always some line ones that stay as a single addition. Plus for role-playing elements I prefer not to move heroes too much if I can help it.
You need to think again.

You already give great value to stuff that can help in overrunning...but you do not take into account rapid fire? This is illogical. Rapid Fire x2 is the great overrun-enabler. Pair with Steamroller tank with some attack buff, max OS and...game just broke :mrgreen:
Had a look at some in game stats and made adjustments to both Rapid Fires (up one tier each) and Vigilant (up two).
fluffybunnyuk wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:18 am
It all depends on the negative traits you use.
I use them all now apart from the no reinforcement one so alot of the "naff" ones in your list are like gold dust to me... like splitter,fast entrenchment,luck,initiative heroes.
True - some traits, both positive and especially negative make things more valuable or just useless. Still this was just a personalized list, not really a universal one. It tempts me to link and external survey to see. :)

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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by adiekmann » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:57 pm

For me, most of those that have the greatest value cannot be judged in absolute terms, but in frequency of use. Zero slots. No arguement here along with a few other very obvious ones that we all would unanimously agree to. But even ones that prove very helpful, the question comes down to "How often?" For example, I think camouflage is great on say an AT. But how often does it actually occur where it makes use of it? That is a key to most of these. How often are you fighting from a river hex? How often does your unit __________?

The best ones are the ones that you can take advantage of every single turn, like Rapid Fire, Zero Slots, Double Attack, unless you of course are not attacking or using it (like adding replacements).

Then, combos...Overwhelming attack is just eh by itself. Paired it with envelopment and...wow! Kind of like oxygen and hydrogen don't help me in the desert unless I have them combined in a water molecule. Other examples of a similar affects exist too.

So it really comes down to:

1. How frequently can you unit take advantage of said hero?
2. Do you have other heroes to really make its worth shine?

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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Kerensky » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:53 pm

While I don't agree with all the tier rankings, it is a very nice list with a lot of good descriptions for the wealth of potential heroes. I'll add this thread as a link in the big FAQ thread. :)

Tassadar
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Tassadar » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:27 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:53 pm
While I don't agree with all the tier rankings, it is a very nice list with a lot of good descriptions for the wealth of potential heroes. I'll add this thread as a link in the big FAQ thread. :)
Thanks! I think will expand the first post with edits not only to tiers based on feedback and experience, but also with exact ability descriptions based on Fulgrim's post plus the latest game data. Just need to find a lazy evening to sit through this as something to kill time before the next DLC. First updates actually in progress.

EDIT - Phew, done! Crossed out Halftrack Support and Mine Field compared to Fulgrim's list (brought up via console these do not even create an "empty" hero) and also added No Supply that was apparently missing, but works just fine.

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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Agarwaen » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:02 am

Legendary - Generates 20 prestige per turn - that's a LOT of prestige. The icon shows number 20, but it indeed generates 50.
Just tested in game. Legendary generates 20 prestige per turn, NOT 50!
You can check this if you have Adolf Galand in your core.
Famous generates 10 prestige per turn NOT 20.
You can check this if you have any of the other 2 special heroes.

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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Magic1111 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:08 am

Tassadar wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:25 pm
Entrenchment Killer 2/3/4 - Destroys 2/3/4 points of entrenchment with every attack - artillery already does the same thing and other units aside from planes would get shot back. For fighters that after getting air dominance or at least superiority ten to get bored and start looking for easy targets and also for tactical bombers as there not always will be a viable exposed unit to take down.
What are the best units to assign these heroes to? I have three of them ...

I'm not sure which units are best for this type of hero.

fluffybunnyuk
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by fluffybunnyuk » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:22 am

Magic1111 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:08 am
Tassadar wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:25 pm
Entrenchment Killer 2/3/4 - Destroys 2/3/4 points of entrenchment with every attack - artillery already does the same thing and other units aside from planes would get shot back. For fighters that after getting air dominance or at least superiority ten to get bored and start looking for easy targets and also for tactical bombers as there not always will be a viable exposed unit to take down.
What are the best units to assign these heroes to? I have three of them ...

I'm not sure which units are best for this type of hero.
Its essential if you have trench slog. It works well on a tactical bomber or fighter later on once the enemy aircraft has been worn down to attack victory hexes. It saves on having a strategic bomber.
I just got that at Norway North after getting ignore entrenchment hero. I dont get mountaineers so i have to slog it out with 2x10.5cm,1x7.5cm, 1 pioneer, 5 wehr infantry, 2 fighters,1 tactical bomber, and 1x88. I'm grossly underpowered, so i put entrenchment killer on the tactical bomber, and ignore entrenchment on the wehr infantry.
More attacking units that remove entrenchment means less waiting time dealing with entrenchment. Its vital not to be kept waiting because other units get time to get entrenched and it turns into a slog...
Attacking enemy units doesnt remove entrenchment for me. I need to use specialised units.

Tassadar
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by Tassadar » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:48 pm

Agarwaen wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:02 am
Legendary - Generates 20 prestige per turn - that's a LOT of prestige. The icon shows number 20, but it indeed generates 50.
Just tested in game. Legendary generates 20 prestige per turn, NOT 50!
You can check this if you have Adolf Galand in your core.
Famous generates 10 prestige per turn NOT 20.
You can check this if you have any of the other 2 special heroes.
Thanks! Verified it just now and it's correct. The description is wrong, not the icon. It seems i got that wrong by reading about it and not checking. Will correct the info and drop both by a tier due to that.

nexusno2000
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by nexusno2000 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:53 pm

Agarwaen wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:02 am
Legendary - Generates 20 prestige per turn - that's a LOT of prestige. The icon shows number 20, but it indeed generates 50.
Just tested in game. Legendary generates 20 prestige per turn, NOT 50!
You can check this if you have Adolf Galand in your core.
Famous generates 10 prestige per turn NOT 20.
You can check this if you have any of the other 2 special heroes.
Now I must laugh.

It used to be like this in the beta, then it got changed before launch (but not the icons). Apparently it's back to basics - without a proper changelog :D
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

dalfrede
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Re: Hero abilities tier list

Post by dalfrede » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:19 pm

A number of these are unit traits, not hero abilities. They are given to specific units in the equip file, not given to players randomly as heroes.
:
Military Engineer [Ignores Entrenchment is the related hero]
Low Profile
Glider
Mine Killer
Paratrooper
Recon Plane
Single Entity
Single Shot
Kamikaze

There may be others.

For example : the 'No Split' hero isn't a real hero, it is a way for scenario designers to add a trait to specific units without modifying the equip file.

I suspect that some of the AI heroes are unit traits added by Kerensky to specific units, and not in the list of Heroes a player can receive.
The Traits list and Hero list overlap but are two separate things.
A LUA script can create a hero out of any trait, but if it is not in the games internal hero list it will not show up randomly.

The actual hero list was posted during the Beta, but any updates to the list since then have not been posted.
Perhaps when the 'Modding Tutorials' are released we will get the latest hero list actually in the game.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

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