Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

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euramer
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Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by euramer » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am

Hello, playing on the default difficulty setting, I am in the middle of the Ebro defence, overpowered by the heavy 152 mm of the republicans. I managed to capture enough to field one of these, but I wish that the Condor legion had the foresight to have brought something heavier than the 105 mm... Is-it because in the real war history It was so? :?

IceSerpent
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by IceSerpent » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:04 pm

euramer wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am
Hello, playing on the default difficulty setting, I am in the middle of the Ebro defence, overpowered by the heavy 152 mm of the republicans. I managed to capture enough to field one of these, but I wish that the Condor legion had the foresight to have brought something heavier than the 105 mm... Is-it because in the real war history It was so? :?
Condor legion initially consisted of airforce units with a few flak batteries. Some tanks were added later. I don't think they had any arty at all. That being said, Germany did deliver arty and anti-tank guns to general Franco. Not sure if 15cm sFH were in the mix though.

o_t_d_x
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by o_t_d_x » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:22 pm

Its a lot about luck too. This time i got a hero that doubles captured equipment. Put it in my Scout and now i have over 100 T-26, masses of BT5. My arty is only 152mm.. In my first try on ebro, i had the same problem like you. In that case you loose every arty duel, so dont do it. Instead you have to go to the offence against this artys.

If you dont want to hope for the hero, just acitvate war trophies as trait, and spain is muuuuch easier.

BTW: there is a village, a std. village, no bonus target, on a map (its an early map :mrgreen: ), when you take it you get a 200 mm soviet arty. But only 10 of them, you have to guard it very well. AI loves to attack it.

nexusno2000
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by nexusno2000 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:51 pm

euramer wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am
Hello, playing on the default difficulty setting, I am in the middle of the Ebro defence, overpowered by the heavy 152 mm of the republicans. I managed to capture enough to field one of these, but I wish that the Condor legion had the foresight to have brought something heavier than the 105 mm... Is-it because in the real war history It was so? :?
The German artillery DOES make sense in a historical context.

Republican artillery makes little sense.

The 203mm you get in scenarios 1+2 is WW2 vintage.

The same applies to the 122mm and 152mm guns - the game designers have mixed up some modernized WW1 122/152 guns with much more modern WW2 guns...

Only the Vickers 105mm and the lighter pieces are artillery that actually existed during this time period.
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

IceSerpent
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by IceSerpent » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:24 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:51 pm
The 203mm you get in scenarios 1+2 is WW2 vintage.
13 of them actually existed at the time of SCW...and we stole them all! *cue evil laughter*
The same applies to the 122mm and 152mm guns - the game designers have mixed up some modernized WW1 122/152 guns with much more modern WW2 guns...
Yeah, those should have been M1910/30 guns, but models are for later varieties (i.e. 152mm M-10).

euramer
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by euramer » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:36 pm

Thank you for the tips, I don't know if I will have to restart the whole Spanish campaign, by I have still in front of me more than six 152 mm plus smaller change at Ebro and my offensive by the North to take them out has stalled at round 13 after a promising start and 7 ennemies guns of all types destroyed. I may have no other choice but to move back behind the river but it will be a short reprieve, whatever I do, I expect the Republicans to grind and pierce the Nationalist infanteries lines in the south-east before round 20. After that It will be a delaying game and I don't like it. :? :(

nexusno2000
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by nexusno2000 » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:21 pm

IceSerpent wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:24 pm
nexusno2000 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:51 pm
The 203mm you get in scenarios 1+2 is WW2 vintage.
13 of them actually existed at the time of SCW...and we stole them all! *cue evil laughter*
The same applies to the 122mm and 152mm guns - the game designers have mixed up some modernized WW1 122/152 guns with much more modern WW2 guns...
Yeah, those should have been M1910/30 guns, but models are for later varieties (i.e. 152mm M-10).
Yes the models - and the stats - are clearly the WW2 guns.
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

Retributarr
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by Retributarr » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:40 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:21 pm
IceSerpent wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:24 pm
nexusno2000 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:51 pm
The 203mm you get in scenarios 1+2 is WW2 vintage.
13 of them actually existed at the time of SCW...and we stole them all! *cue evil laughter*
The same applies to the 122mm and 152mm guns - the game designers have mixed up some modernized WW1 122/152 guns with much more modern WW2 guns...
Yeah, those should have been M1910/30 guns, but models are for later varieties (i.e. 152mm M-10).
Yes the models - and the stats - are clearly the WW2 guns.
It is an "Agregious-Desecration" and insult to the 'Historical-Flavour/Sense' of the Game and the designated given 'Time-Period' to arbitrarily substitute or put in place... 'Advanced-Weaponry' that was still not-available into a Scenario or Campaign... that should not be there in the first place!.

euramer
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by euramer » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:24 pm

These republicans heavy guns, finally didn't hold in front of concentration of german and italian tanks with a lot of aerial help, but I had to save and retry many times. From the game point of view they really increase the challenge, because they support with defensive fire not only the infantry, but also the armored elements. From the historical point of view, maybe the guns have been a little upgraded, but it was an interesting game.

Kiane
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by Kiane » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:23 am

Maybe I'm just playing wrong (or right?), but I never find artillery to be a big deal, offense or defense. They're much weaker than from PzC1. I feel better off fielding another tank. At worst they'll do about 1 point of damage/a couple points of suppression; in Ebro I killed the 4 in the north by rushing them and ignored the rest, winning the scenario pretty easily by just trickling prestige into reinforcements from arty damage.

Vorskl
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by Vorskl » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:56 pm

nexusno2000 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:51 pm
euramer wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am
Hello, playing on the default difficulty setting, I am in the middle of the Ebro defence, overpowered by the heavy 152 mm of the republicans. I managed to capture enough to field one of these, but I wish that the Condor legion had the foresight to have brought something heavier than the 105 mm... Is-it because in the real war history It was so? :?
The German artillery DOES make sense in a historical context.

Republican artillery makes little sense.

The 203mm you get in scenarios 1+2 is WW2 vintage.

The same applies to the 122mm and 152mm guns - the game designers have mixed up some modernized WW1 122/152 guns with much more modern WW2 guns...

Only the Vickers 105mm and the lighter pieces are artillery that actually existed during this time period.
Hi,
I quoted you already a contemporary Russian historian complaining there is a MESS in archive papers with naming these 122mm / 152mm versions, so that not a surprise designers could get it wrong. All units - 122mm, 152mm and 203mm had existed in one form or another before the Civil War broke up. The 203mm in question has been in production since 1932. Moreover, in the same the characteristics of 'old' and 'modern' 152mm guns are the same, so it really does not make the difference.
I am more surprised by seeing Katyusha and Il-2 in Poland - that's a a way too early for them.

nexusno2000
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Re: Spanish civil war: Heavy guns ?

Post by nexusno2000 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:02 pm

Vorskl wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:56 pm
nexusno2000 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:51 pm
euramer wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am
Hello, playing on the default difficulty setting, I am in the middle of the Ebro defence, overpowered by the heavy 152 mm of the republicans. I managed to capture enough to field one of these, but I wish that the Condor legion had the foresight to have brought something heavier than the 105 mm... Is-it because in the real war history It was so? :?
The German artillery DOES make sense in a historical context.

Republican artillery makes little sense.

The 203mm you get in scenarios 1+2 is WW2 vintage.

The same applies to the 122mm and 152mm guns - the game designers have mixed up some modernized WW1 122/152 guns with much more modern WW2 guns...

Only the Vickers 105mm and the lighter pieces are artillery that actually existed during this time period.
Hi,
I quoted you already a contemporary Russian historian complaining there is a MESS in archive papers with naming these 122mm / 152mm versions, so that not a surprise designers could get it wrong. All units - 122mm, 152mm and 203mm had existed in one form or another before the Civil War broke up. The 203mm in question has been in production since 1932. Moreover, in the same the characteristics of 'old' and 'modern' 152mm guns are the same, so it really does not make the difference.
I am more surprised by seeing Katyusha and Il-2 in Poland - that's a a way too early for them.
I don't really agree with this assessment, but ok.
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

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