Aircraft flying range

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Kerensky
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Aircraft flying range

Post by Kerensky » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:34 am

Should this be calculated from the airfield they are based on, instead of the hex they are based on? Seems very annoying when auto return to base moves a low speed aircraft to the opposite side of the airfield it is positioned on not being able to air strike something it attacked on the previous turn. :?

Something to consider for the future I think.

KesaAnna
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by KesaAnna » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:48 am

A game like this seems to require a large measure of generalization , making up stories to explain things away , and just basic suspension of disbelief.

If you try to think in terms of concrete tangibles it can drive you crazy.

For example , if a hex on the map represents 200 square yards , then it makes sense that only one unit ( a regiment ? or a division ? ) can occupy one ground hex at one time.

But , in that case , an airport should be five or ten hexes , not one hex. One hex in such a case would represent an airstrip for radio - controlled model airplanes. :?
Un - usable for anything except maybe a single Fiesler Storch.

On the other hand , if a hex represents ten square miles , then a major paved airport consisting of just one hex makes sense. But then , in that case , you should be able to park an artillery , infantry , and tank unit on a single hex ! :?

What - the - fug ? ! :?

Apparently in a game like this a hex represents neither 200 square yards , nor does it represent ten square miles.

It represents instead ..... well ....

.... maybe best not to think about it ? :D

Otherwise , to combine generalization , making up stories to explain things away , and just basic suspension of disbelief , we could speculate that the funny business with hexes above an airport represents the fact that aircraft are generally high - maintenance. After returning from a mission , aircraft not untypically not only need re - fueling , they need repairs , or even over - hauling. Or the mission took ten hours in real time , and the pilots need a short , or even a long , break.
Or , obviously , five units of aircraft of 20 or 40 aircraft apiece cannot take off from a single runway at one time. Instead , unit A uses the runway to take off from 1: 00 PM to 1 : 45 PM , then unit B uses the runway to take off from 1:45 PM to 2:30 PM , and so on.

Of course all of that doesn't quite , or doesn't really , explain why an aircraft that was in range last turn isn't in range this turn.

Oh well.

But to answer your question ; I would prefer it if distance were calculated from the single airport hex , not from the hex the aircraft arbitrarily happens to occupy above the airport hex. --- But then an artillery unit , infantry unit , and tank unit should be able to occupy , or at least attack out of , the same hex ?

Ugh , it reminds me of the multiple - core - issue ; is this tweaking the game , or a major re - vamping of the game ?

verstaubtgesicht
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by verstaubtgesicht » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:08 am

Another super-annoying mechanic: one cannot pick where to put the aircraft when relocating. For example, I wanted to relo my fighter and bomber to a new airport. They did not land next to each other, and the bomber got attacked on the next turn... In general, this "flying on autopilot" should be eliminated, but I gather it's a huge hassle with the way the engine works.

nexusno2000
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by nexusno2000 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:20 am

Kerensky wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:34 am
Should this be calculated from the airfield they are based on, instead of the hex they are based on? Seems very annoying when auto return to base moves a low speed aircraft to the opposite side of the airfield it is positioned on not being able to air strike something it attacked on the previous turn. :?

Something to consider for the future I think.
I have nagged Rudankort about this for ages...
Green Knight
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verstaubtgesicht
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by verstaubtgesicht » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:41 am

nexusno2000 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:20 am
Kerensky wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:34 am
Should this be calculated from the airfield they are based on, instead of the hex they are based on? Seems very annoying when auto return to base moves a low speed aircraft to the opposite side of the airfield it is positioned on not being able to air strike something it attacked on the previous turn. :?

Something to consider for the future I think.
I have nagged Rudankort about this for ages...
It's ridiculous! I'm now in Sebastopol and my Stuka is 1 hex short of bombing a tank because it auto-landed on the far side of the airfield.

IceSerpent
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by IceSerpent » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:39 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:34 am
Should this be calculated from the airfield they are based on, instead of the hex they are based on? Seems very annoying when auto return to base moves a low speed aircraft to the opposite side of the airfield it is positioned on not being able to air strike something it attacked on the previous turn. :?

Something to consider for the future I think.
Yes, that sounds like a good idea. Alternatively, it may be even better to allow player to rebase aircraft to a specific hex instead of just designating the airfield (like it works during deployment) and make them always return to that specific hex. This would also solve the issue with bombers not being protected by fighters while on base. It might be too complicated to code though, especially with having to account for planes automatically relocating if airfield is captured. Just a thought... :)

Retributarr
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by Retributarr » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:19 pm

IceSerpent wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:39 pm
Kerensky wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:34 am
Should this be calculated from the airfield they are based on, instead of the hex they are based on? Something to consider for the future I think.
Yes, that sounds like a good idea. Alternatively, it may be even better to allow player to rebase aircraft to a specific hex instead of just designating the airfield (like it works during deployment) and make them always return to that specific hex. This would also solve the issue with bombers not being protected by fighters while on base.
"Exclamation!!!"... I think you just suggested the 'Solution' to this "agitating situation!".

Rhaeg
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by Rhaeg » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:15 pm

It would be a nice small change, I guess. Coming one hex short because your plane happened to land on the wrong side of the airfield can be irritating, though of course we never notice when our bomber can just make it to that juicy target because it effectively got +1 movement for being on the right side of the airfield. So currently it averages out, but it would take away the -1/0/+1 randomness if movement were always calculated from the airfield. I'd put this one low on the list of priorities.

adiekmann
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by adiekmann » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:21 pm

Perhaps an easier fix would be that its movement is calculated starting from any hex surrounding the airfield, not just the one it is currently occupying. In other words, the game thinks of the airfield hex and those surrounding it as one giant hex instead of 9 different spaces. Therefore, when calculating its move, it counts as hex 1 the closest and first hex surrounding this 9-hex island, even if it was "parked" on the other side of the airfield.

Or yes, what you suggested Kerensky. I just find it annoying when you rebase and you have no control over which hex it "parks" itself on. 1st aircraft is always on the airfield hex, but after that...Sometimes you can attack with that redeployed aircraft if it chose a hex over/next to an enemy unit. But if it does not, then you are SOL. That's even more annoying to me.

verstaubtgesicht
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by verstaubtgesicht » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:17 pm

IceSerpent wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:39 pm
Alternatively, it may be even better to allow player to rebase aircraft to a specific hex instead of just designating the airfield (like it works during deployment) and make them always return to that specific hex. This would also solve the issue with bombers not being protected by fighters while on base. It might be too complicated to code though, especially with having to account for planes automatically relocating if airfield is captured. Just a thought... :)
This or any of the other solutions proposed like distance from the airfield itself or from the nearest hex around the airport, but please, is it possible to implement this quickly in the next patch? It really ruins the game... After beng short with a Stuka, even worse was that on one turn I bombed a ship and protected the bomber with a fighter, then on the next turn I bombed, but the fighter could not get to a hex to protect!

Kiane
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by Kiane » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:36 pm

adiekmann wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:21 pm
Perhaps an easier fix would be that its movement is calculated starting from any hex surrounding the airfield, not just the one it is currently occupying. In other words, the game thinks of the airfield hex and those surrounding it as one giant hex instead of 9 different spaces. Therefore, when calculating its move, it counts as hex 1 the closest and first hex surrounding this 9-hex island, even if it was "parked" on the other side of the airfield.

Or yes, what you suggested Kerensky. I just find it annoying when you rebase and you have no control over which hex it "parks" itself on. 1st aircraft is always on the airfield hex, but after that...Sometimes you can attack with that redeployed aircraft if it chose a hex over/next to an enemy unit. But if it does not, then you are SOL. That's even more annoying to me.
This is the most sensible and easy to implement solution, especially given that the abstraction I believe they're going for is that all of the aircraft are parked on the same airfield. Making them have different ranges makes little sense. Another weird thing is that if an aircraft has phased movement, it can bomb then rebase back to its airfield, completely avoiding the chance of it being intercepted by enemy aircraft.

sebb81
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by sebb81 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:23 am

Kerensky wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:34 am
Should this be calculated from the airfield they are based on, instead of the hex they are based on? Seems very annoying when auto return to base moves a low speed aircraft to the opposite side of the airfield it is positioned on not being able to air strike something it attacked on the previous turn. :?

Something to consider for the future I think.
This would be great!

Waffenamt
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by Waffenamt » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:38 pm

Could an airfield be a hex that could be somehow stacked with aircraft (think vertical stacking)? They all virtually exist within that single hex but the aircraft units are abstracted to display them as they now appear? The mechanics of airfield capture might offer some challenges, but I would think enemy aircraft within range of another safe airfield could therefore safely automatically re-base whereas any enemy aircraft units left would be fair game to units re-basing to the new airfield or within range to attack. I just don't know how the stacking would apply to combat calculations, but I'll leave that to the experts. :)

verstaubtgesicht
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by verstaubtgesicht » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:46 pm

This needs to be fixed pronto. Is there a moderator who reads these posts? I just can't figure out how did all the beta testing miss this???

nexusno2000
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Re: Aircraft flying range

Post by nexusno2000 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:15 am

verstaubtgesicht wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:46 pm
This needs to be fixed pronto. Is there a moderator who reads these posts? I just can't figure out how did all the beta testing miss this???
It's a tiny little bug of inconvenience. I hate it, sure, but it's hardly game-breaking.
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