Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

A new story begins...
The sequel to a real classic: Panzer Corps is back!

Moderator: Panzer Corps 2 Moderators

Post Reply
ChristianC
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:55 am

Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by ChristianC » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:03 pm

The game has been out 6 months now and all the problems with MP have been brought up time and time again in this forum. Below are some links in case you don't know what I'm talking about. What is the point of ignoring all this criticism and just pumping out single player DLC? Fix the game, you owe it to everyone who bought it and wanted a great sequel with great MP. I'm not trying to sound like a pr*ck, but why not just fix it?

Example: https://youtu.be/8G5HE409CcU
viewtopic.php?f=464&t=100903&p=876549&h ... er#p876549
viewtopic.php?f=464&t=99603&p=859420&hi ... er#p859420
viewtopic.php?f=464&t=99518&p=858390&hi ... er#p858390
viewtopic.php?f=464&t=99354&p=857269&hi ... er#p857269
viewtopic.php?f=464&t=99109&p=853564&hi ... er#p853564

Retributarr
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Retributarr » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:25 pm

Don't be so harsh!.

Not only is the "Multi-Player" issue not yet being dealt with at this moment... but also for many months... some other issues such as... for dealing with "Sound-Effects"... or dealing with "Upscaling the readable Print-Size"... have also not been dealt with. Why???... very-likely... because they are short-staffed and 'Overloaded' with a multitude of other important issues to deal with as well as now being busy in the intensive process of developing AO-1940 and AO-1941.

"Do" make a 'Specific-Request' on one or maybe two pertinent issues that can at least get Multi-Player corrected enough to get you by with right now... until the entire "Overall-Fix" can be addressed or attended too in a proper fashion!. Be patient... the 'Fixes' will come.

ChristianC
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:55 am

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by ChristianC » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:58 pm

They're "overloaded" working on DLCs they'll make a buck off of but can't find the time to fix the base game...

dalfrede
Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
Posts: 974
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by dalfrede » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:35 pm

ChristianC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:58 pm
They're "overloaded" working on DLCs they'll make a buck off of but can't find the time to fix the base game...
The Devs are not working on the DLCs, Kerensky is, he is a contractor hired by the publisher, not a Devs.
The Dev did add features for AOSCW but did not do the scenarios or campaign[s].

The game is not finished.
By that I mean features promised during development are not yet in the game.
Primarily Modding, and I suppose Multiplayer.

The game took longer to develop than expected.
It was released as soon as the game engine and campaign were running well.
There will probably be major updates for at least the next year.
And by updates I don't mean DLCs.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

a432
OoB Tournament Winner
OoB Tournament Winner
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:27 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by a432 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Hello ChristianC!

I am your opponent in the you tube video you linked!
I posted in many of the forum entries you listed to support your case!

Thank you for taking the time to make a you tube video showcasing the problems of the game in multiplayer!

I am sorry to have made the game so unfun for you. I really really hope the devs or contractors hired to fix MP pay attention to this post and fix MP.

a432
OoB Tournament Winner
OoB Tournament Winner
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:27 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by a432 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:38 pm

Oh, and in case they do actually read this, here are a couple of suggestions to get you on the right path to fix MP.

Stopgap solution: Just code it that all multiplayer battles start out with two turns of rain.

The reason for this is that rain prevents paratroopers from moving in planes. This allows both sides have a chance to capture much of the territory on "their" side of the map. I have perosnally experienced this as the RNG of weather one game allowed the first two turns of the battle to be rain.

Permanent solution: Change paratroopers mechanics back to pazner corps 1. Meaning that they cannot move on the same turn they land. When they land they have half of their strength suppressed.

Additionally you need to change the deployment mechanics. Only after a supply city is held for an entire turn, then the next turn you may purchase units from the city.

Hope this help!

Buffalohump
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:49 am
Location: North Texas

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Buffalohump » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:28 pm

a432 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:38 pm
Oh, and in case they do actually read this, here are a couple of suggestions to get you on the right path to fix MP.

Stopgap solution: Just code it that all multiplayer battles start out with two turns of rain.

The reason for this is that rain prevents paratroopers from moving in planes. This allows both sides have a chance to capture much of the territory on "their" side of the map. I have perosnally experienced this as the RNG of weather one game allowed the first two turns of the battle to be rain.

Permanent solution: Change paratroopers mechanics back to pazner corps 1. Meaning that they cannot move on the same turn they land. When they land they have half of their strength suppressed.

Additionally you need to change the deployment mechanics. Only after a supply city is held for an entire turn, then the next turn you may purchase units from the city.

Hope this help!
I do not play multiplayer yet, but think I understand the problem as you describe it. Would making the transport movement work like all other aircraft solve this issue? What I mean is, if you have not dropped within the transport's movement range it must return to it's home airfield. I ask this because I like most of how the mechanic works so don't want it to resort back to PC. However, having just finished Denmark scenario and using them for first time their extreme range is somewhat ridiculous.

a432
OoB Tournament Winner
OoB Tournament Winner
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:27 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by a432 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:25 pm

No, Buffalohump that would not solve the problem.

This is because it already happens like this naturally.

On turn 1 you generally will land all of your troops at their max range anyway. Their 1 turn max range is already about 3/4th of large size map. So many only huge size maps and above this might help a little bit.

dalfrede
Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
Posts: 974
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by dalfrede » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:49 pm

Wouldn't it be simpler to remove air transport in MP scenarios?
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

a432
OoB Tournament Winner
OoB Tournament Winner
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:27 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by a432 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:56 pm

Yes, dalfrede that would be the simplest and easiest.

I don't like to advocate the loss of choice, but in this case I don't mind.

Buffalohump
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:49 am
Location: North Texas

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Buffalohump » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:00 pm

a432 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:25 pm
No, Buffalohump that would not solve the problem.

This is because it already happens like this naturally.

On turn 1 you generally will land all of your troops at their max range anyway. Their 1 turn max range is already about 3/4th of large size map. So many only huge size maps and above this might help a little bit.

I see what you are saying. I have primarily been a single player and have not thought about how it could unbalance a MP game. My main concern is two fold. I used paras quite a bit in PC and was always frustrated at my inability to move on my objective without the computer immediately reacting to what should have been a surprise move. I eventually settled on running a pair of recon cars in deep and having my paras support them instead of the other way around. I have been excited about this new dynamic and personally hope it does not change but will deal with it if it does. Second, I exploited it but the way paras worked in PC was ridiculously easy to deal with in the Bridge Too Far scenarios and the few others I can recall. On a side note, it would seem to me this can be exploited by both players and would effectively negate any advantage one might gain. In addition, it could possibly be planned for and traps set up to hammer an over eager adversary.

Regards,

Buffalohump
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:49 am
Location: North Texas

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Buffalohump » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:04 pm

Another possible solution, would be to reset the paras per PC and make the new traits related to experience(medals). This could possibly satisfy both sides of argument.

Regards,

nexusno2000
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by nexusno2000 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:17 am

dalfrede wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:49 pm
Wouldn't it be simpler to remove air transport in MP scenarios?
^ This.

It's kind of funny how many SP scenarios do not have any air transports available. Almost like the scenarios would break if there were paras :roll:
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

FunPolice749
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:52 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by FunPolice749 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:48 pm

What if Paratroopers had to remain in their transports for a turn and then drop? So say you move them over the hex you want to drop them in then on the next turn you can drop them and have them move like they do currently. There would need to be some adjustments to probably the transports but does offer a few positives like:
1. More counterplay since fighters and AA can try to shoot them down and leave them much weaker when they hit the ground (also requires the paratroopers user to have fighters covering those paratroopers if they intend to drop in a hot zone). Would need some adjustments to the transport so they are less vunerable.
2. It still lets paratroopers move when they land so they can get to a key point when needed (maybe they could even attack on that turn making them better at smashing support stuff if they get behind the frontline?)

Would this address the issue of paratroopers? I don't play MP so just kinda spitballing based on what I've read.

a432
OoB Tournament Winner
OoB Tournament Winner
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:27 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by a432 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:38 pm

Yes FunPolice749 that would be a solution. A paratrooper cannot move in an air transport AND land. They must pick one.

I like that it gives AA an actual chance to inflict historical causalities.

However i disagree about being able to attack the same turn they land.

Buffalohump
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:49 am
Location: North Texas

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Buffalohump » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:37 pm

I will state again, I do not play multiplayer so am not aware of the challenges involved in MP. However, I was reading through Best Infantry Unit discussion over in the PC forum and you made comments there a while back concerning paras. You obviously don’t like them. I must retract my previous attempt to o find a compromise idea. I personally am happy with most of their functionality now. I do think the transport’s range should function like other aircraft and they must drop or return to base, but I cannot agree with a full return to how they functioned in Panzer Corps. Not that it matters, I am not in a position to influence any of this anyway. I admit I will continue buying and playing DLCs as long as they keep putting them out. I am apparently, from reading all these threads, in the minority of people who have thoroughly enjoyed the DLC’s so far.

Retributarr
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Retributarr » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:03 pm

I'm in the 'MINORITY' as well!... I have not too much to be complaining about.

As I have already stated in other previous posts... the only issue I have is that I would very-much like to see such conflicts as 'Poland'... 'The Battle of France'... A'-historical 'Operations Sealion'... 'The Balkans'...'Finland'... and others not to be side-lined as minor-fleeting-blips on a radar-screen... but instead maxed-out in their development 'Game-Wise'... that is to say... to have the entire story told of that Conflict!.

Now!.. is there some "Restriction???" … financially or predicted potential lack of possible sales that are heavily influencing the/this 'Decapitation' of the development of the "Whole-Enchilada???". I hope not!.

adiekmann
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 am

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by adiekmann » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:00 pm

Buffalohump wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:37 pm
I will state again, I do not play multiplayer so am not aware of the challenges involved in MP. However, I was reading through Best Infantry Unit discussion over in the PC forum and you made comments there a while back concerning paras. You obviously don’t like them. I must retract my previous attempt to o find a compromise idea. I personally am happy with most of their functionality now. I do think the transport’s range should function like other aircraft and they must drop or return to base, but I cannot agree with a full return to how they functioned in Panzer Corps. Not that it matters, I am not in a position to influence any of this anyway. I admit I will continue buying and playing DLCs as long as they keep putting them out. I am apparently, from reading all these threads, in the minority of people who have thoroughly enjoyed the DLC’s so far.
No, you are not alone. I, and I suspect many others, enjoyed both DLCs. However, I don't think there is one person out there who feels, "Nope, I wouldn't change a SINGLE thing!"

But that's not to be confused with "I did not like playing it." Like Kerensky has said, the strong opinions mentioned here show how passionate people are about this game that they would take the time to post their opinions, objections, and suggestions on this forum in detail. If they didn't care or like the game in general, they wouldn't bother.

Now I too have never played a single MP game in this or PC. I do think however that the paratrooper mechanics are a bit too liberal. I have not used the Fallschirmjäger inf units at all in PC2. I loved them in PC1 GC. I always had a few even to use simply as ground troops. Their high initiative and SA made them powerful. With experience and an attack hero or two, their low GD was meaningless as they usually devastated their opponent and took little to no return fire. The different mechanics (looking at you, accuracy %) now seems to have largely robbed that from them.

I believe that German paratroopers actually did not jump with their weapons, but had to get them from a separately dropped cache after landing, something that I believe the western allies did not copy. I could be wrong about this since it's been a long time since I think I read that. So moving after landing seems reasonable, but moving, dropping, and attacking all in the same turn seems excessive and unrealistic.

Retributarr
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Retributarr » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:33 pm

adiekmann wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:00 pm
Buffalohump wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:37 pm
I I do think the transport’s range should function like other aircraft and they must drop or return to base, but I cannot agree with a full return to how they functioned in Panzer Corps.
I believe that German paratroopers actually did not jump with their weapons. So moving after landing seems reasonable, but moving, dropping, and attacking all in the same turn seems excessive and unrealistic.
After parachuting to the ground... the paratroopers were usually all spread out away from each other and as well a number of them got hung-up in trees or drowned in swamps. It would take time to assemble any meaningful number of them to make them effective at all as a unit!. Not only that... but many times they also had no landmarks to help gauge or determine... as to where they were positioned on the maps that they had.

So!... "(Airlift-Transport) moving, dropping, and attacking all in the same turn seems excessive and unrealistic".

Yes!... that type of deployment is completely unrealistic!.

Buffalohump
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:49 am
Location: North Texas

Re: Do devs give even a single sh*t about MP? Or will they let it rot?

Post by Buffalohump » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:58 pm

In PC when using paras you rarely hit your target drop. Understandable, I thought this adequately addressed the confusion. What aggravated me was on top of this you land suppressed with no movement. The element of surprise is now lost, even the AI can react quickly and spawn unit to cover the objective. I do not disagree that some adjustments aren’t warranted, but I do not want to go back to PC mechanics. My work around when I wanted to use them was to have a couple of well experienced recon cars work to penetrate the line and assemble near the target and drop my paras out of sight distance from my target. I still intend to do something similar. Granted it appears to me you can now only deploy around deployment hexes and that issue may be somewhat resolved.
I guess my bitch is let me play with my new toy before you start changing it. Only got to use them in Denmark and was somewhat happy. I have not played the new grand campaign. I played those scenarios endlessly in Panzer General and Panzer Corps and I am personally really only interested in DLCs. I never played Panzer General II, those where my late teenage years when I discovered girls and alcohol and lost all interest in gaming.

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps 2”