More replayability and less puzzle

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Gunja
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:35 am

More replayability and less puzzle

Post by Gunja » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 am

Hi,

since PzC 2 is in development, I thought to share some thoughts on the game design of PzC and turn based strategy games I had now for a long time, ever since I started to play Panzer General II and then the others (PG III, Peoples General, PzC, OOB and so on). The problem I have is the lack of information about the enemy in the first playthrough and the abundance of information in the following playthrough which tends to make the game in parts kind of a puzzle game.
Let´s take the first Poland scenario of PzC as an example. The information you get as a player is vary vague, you have almost no information on enemy strength, position, reinforcements and so on. Then, when replaying it, you know where the enemy positions are, you remember how many tiles you can move forward avoiding an ambush etc. To be sure, there are some variations because the AI does not always purchase the same replacements but still.
What I would suggest are two things:
1. More Information about the general positions of the enemy. Maybe a map with some remarks like (around 2 - 4 units around Poznan etc.) You could even invest some Prestige Points to have more accurate informations in the beginning of the scenario. (So to some extenct, it would be similar to Peoples General)
2. More variations in the enemy position. You could for example have different starting positions (i.e. AI strategies) that are chosen by a random factor.

In my opinion this would greatly improve the replay values of the game and make it even more a strategy game and less of a puzzle game. You would of course have to balance historical accuracy and the amount of variations you offer in a given scenario.

In the same spirit, you could also enhance the campaign experience by making the starting positions more depending on the results of the scenario before. OOB does it a little bit, but I think, this could be implemented and even expanded in PzC also.

What do you think?

Rood
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:27 am

Re: More replayability and less puzzle

Post by Rood » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:11 pm

I think you hit the proverbial hammer on the nail!

I'm in the middle of another playthrough of the GC (the upgraded version by nikivdd) and since it's been a while I don't always remember where the enemy units are and where the reinforcements are coming from. So it's a bit like I play them for the first time. Which is a good thing, since, as you said after the first playthrough it's usually much easier (and that's why many people increase the difficulty).

A better briefing helps a lot to deploy the units properly.

If it's possible a more random placement of the enemy units at the start of the scenario would indeed be great for replayability.

Investing prestige points in "signal intercepts" or aerial reconnaissance would also be cool.

Having "placeholders" (like for example OoB does for air units that aren't sighted yet but you know they are around somewhere) for enemy units would in my opinion also be nice, so you know there is a infantry or tank unit around but not the exact type or strength.

jeff00t
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: More replayability and less puzzle

Post by jeff00t » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:07 am

i think there are plenty ways of playing panzer corps.

personnaly, i prefer "chess mod" where there is no luck, no surprise: you should try it, it add more startegic possibilities: for this, i desactivate fog of war : i can see all unit enemy units and i can planify my strategy: will i attack by left or right? will i send paratroops to take non defended aircraft? i activate also "chess" in options to get the rights damages.

when we play a new campaign, it is always a lot of luck:too many troops on wrong road , not enough fighters... the game is just no more the same game when you see all units! every player should try it at least one time!
my custom single player mini-campaign in order of battle : normandie-niemen: Image
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=374&t=79333&p=676302#p676302

KarlXII
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:42 am

Re: More replayability and less puzzle

Post by KarlXII » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:25 pm

Good idead about investing prestige points for better intelligence. But you only do that the first playthrough.

I would like to see a more dynamic A.I that uses the whole map at once to achieve its goals.

In Panzer Corops (Order of Battle and other games) the A.I is only activated when you close in on enemy groups and you could pick the groups one at a time, knowing that the rear enemy units will not activate until you get close. I hate that because you are not rewarded by scouting. You only risk activating a new group of enemies. It would be nice if the A.I used all trops at once on the map to both defend - pulling back - or advancing with rear units to support its units in the front. I don´t know if the A.I in Panzer Corps is heavily scripted or not but it would be nice if it was a little more autonomous.

Also it would be great if reinforcements could arrive on both sides during a battle

huckc
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:38 pm
Location: USA

Re: More replayability and less puzzle

Post by huckc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:57 pm

KarlXII wrote:Good idead about investing prestige points for better intelligence. But you only do that the first playthrough.

I would like to see a more dynamic A.I that uses the whole map at once to achieve its goals.

In Panzer Corops (Order of Battle and other games) the A.I is only activated when you close in on enemy groups and you could pick the groups one at a time, knowing that the rear enemy units will not activate until you get close. I hate that because you are not rewarded by scouting. You only risk activating a new group of enemies. It would be nice if the A.I used all trops at once on the map to both defend - pulling back - or advancing with rear units to support its units in the front. I don´t know if the A.I in Panzer Corps is heavily scripted or not but it would be nice if it was a little more autonomous.

Also it would be great if reinforcements could arrive on both sides during a battle
That's true with regards to how most scenarios are designed, but Panzer Corps currently does support an aggressive AI that will move across the entire map before getting closed on or anything.

Most scenarios don't have this AI behavior set but a few do, even non-defensive ones such as US Corps Wargames and Unthinkable to name a couple off the top of my head.

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