Best feature from the twitch stream?

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Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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Re: Best feature from the twitch stream?

Post by jeffoot77 » Thu May 09, 2019 9:14 am

tired of waiting for 10 min the AI turn in huge maps? with simultaneous movement, only 3 seconds ... just amazing but will it work with hundred units? will it be necessary to have a good PC ?

Master Sergeant - U-boat
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Re: Best feature from the twitch stream?

Post by Molve » Thu May 09, 2019 12:00 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:25 pm
Technically, there is no problem to implement the old behavior as an option. We just need to add a check - what was the last command, and if it was movement, did it reveal any units. I just don't understand why this would be any improvement. As I was working on Panzer Corps and PGF before it, I have made several attempts to kill Undo as a legal cheat mechanics. There always was a big outcry from players, and the cited reason was always the same - we are all humans, we make mistakes and misclick, and it is not fun when a single misclick ruins your game. But if we accept this logic, then we also need to agree that:
- You can misclick on any action, not just on movement which does not reveal any units, so undo should cover more cases.
- But this does not happen so often, so Undo can be very limited in its number of uses. It's not a big deal if Undo is used a couple of times in the whole mission. It's much better than seemingly "innocent" undo move, but which can be abused again and again to avoid ambushes and collect information about where enemy is (or rather where he is not).

Back in PG days "Undo move" served a very distinctive purpose. You needed to go up to the enemy in order to see the prediction. So it made a lot of sense. With improved UI, this is not necessarily any more. And so it is much harder to see why move order is so special and deserves Undo, when all other actions do not.
Thank you for a speedy response. I don't necessarily object to changes or insist everything must be "as it has always been".

However, I honestly don't think it is fruitful to assume mechanics are used for cheating, and (to the point) assume that players must be shielded from using the mechanics in that way. (Obviously talking about single player here)

Much better to leave that decision up to the player. Don't remove something simply to protect users from themselves.

Each player asks: Am I incapable of not "misusing" a certain mechanic for cheating purposes? And is that a problem for me?

Only if both questions are answered with "yes" is it a problem, and even then, offering the option of turning said mechanic off is much preferable to making a decision that affects everybody.

The ideal kind of Undo is a completely non-restricted neutral ability with full and incremental undo/redo all the way back to the very first move. :) If the player feels "this allows me to cheat" AND "that makes it too easy" the best solution is to add any restrictions as on/off (optional) toggles. (Of course, I'm not really asking you to spend all your time on this feature :wink: )



(Disclaimer: Maybe this is all a misunderstanding and you do not need to do or change anything :) )

Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Best feature from the twitch stream?

Post by bth901 » Thu May 09, 2019 1:18 pm

Molve wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 12:00 pm
Much better to leave that decision up to the player. Don't remove something simply to protect users from themselves.
I fully agree with that! There is nothing worse imo than a game that has no manual save / quick save (or undo in this case) with the argument of the developers: "it makes the gameplay more thrilling and exiting because you cannot save each step progress or the player cheats", but when the player does a mistake before the auto save from the game takes place, all the progress is lost and the player has to start all over again (and again and again in the worst case) and gets bored and frustrated with that!

I want to decide by myself, whether or not I want save litte step progresses or undo my decision or switch off the option if I want the thrill! When it is not possible to toggle it on/off, make it depending on the difficulty level. Then everyone can play on the level he/she wants.

Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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Re: Best feature from the twitch stream?

Post by Kolaris » Thu May 09, 2019 10:03 pm

Right, that's what I thought "Simultaneous Movement"'s just such a huge feature, I figured it would have been talked about more. Amazing that it's being included as an option. I've felt that simultaneous turns were the future for turn-based strategy games for a while now, really excited to see how it turns out.

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Re: Best feature from the twitch stream?

Post by Razz1 » Sun May 19, 2019 5:09 pm

The Anti tank fire support is the best new feature for me.

Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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Re: Best feature from the twitch stream?

Post by hugh2711 » Sun May 19, 2019 8:36 pm

Strangely enough i still have on my win 7 laptop a working 1996 game (M.A.X.) which has the 'similtaneous' option. I think around the time a number of turn based games tried it but everyone unchecked it off, it was a gimmick which did not last.

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