Dev Diaries will resume soon

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AlbertoC
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Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by AlbertoC » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:46 pm

Hi guys,

Many of you have been wondering what's up with the dev diaries. The devs are fully focussing on getting the beta build ready, and once that's done they will have enough time to start working on dev diaries again.

So bear with us, the dev diaries stream will soon resume!

JB72
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by JB72 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:11 am

Your interaction with the community is truly unprecedented ! :evil:

jeffoot77
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by jeffoot77 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:27 pm

thxs for the info , it means that beta will go out before the next dev diary ! :D

CaesarCzech
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by CaesarCzech » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:21 am

I hope i get in. The fact that im unable to go For Fantasy General beta due to Win 10 leaves bad taste in my mouth.

Molve
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Molve » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:10 am

Appreciated! :)

Of course, vacations is just around the corner, so we shouldn't expect much before September...

AlbertoC
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by AlbertoC » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:27 pm

jeffoot77 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:27 pm
thxs for the info , it means that beta will go out before the next dev diary ! :D
Well that's certainly our goal!

But it might take a while, the devs are working full time on shaping up the game and adding content

AlbertoC
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by AlbertoC » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:28 pm

Molve wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:10 am
Appreciated! :)

Of course, vacations is just around the corner, so we shouldn't expect much before September...
We'll keep working during the summer ;)

Kerensky
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Kerensky » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:55 pm

AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:28 pm
We'll keep working during the summer ;)
I wasn't aware that anyone actually takes summer vacations.

proline
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by proline » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:48 am

AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:46 pm
Hi guys,

Many of you have been wondering what's up with the dev diaries. The devs are fully focussing on getting the beta build ready, and once that's done they will have enough time to start working on dev diaries again.

So bear with us, the dev diaries stream will soon resume!
Oh will they?

Patrick Ward
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Patrick Ward » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:06 pm

Yes they will. Beta has proved to be far more work than expected and is taking priority.
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CaesarCzech
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by CaesarCzech » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:37 am

Sigh. I presume its gonna release Q1 2020

jeffoot77
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by jeffoot77 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:39 am

until 2020, you have unit of command 2, fantasy general 2 and the new DLC of OOB...

proline
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by proline » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:32 am

Patrick Ward wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:06 pm
Yes they will. Beta has proved to be far more work than expected and is taking priority.
Perhaps it's best not to bother with more Dev Diaries, especially if your heart isn't in it or you don't have time. They tend to only get around 1,000 views anyways. A better way to generate interest would be to simply not have an NDA for the beta. That way we could discuss and share screenshots with people who are actually playing the game and YouTubers could generate some buzz. After years of development and an initial announcement that focused on Unreal 3D technology rather than gameplay this game could use some buzz. Big time.

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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Kerensky » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:28 am

proline wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:32 am
Perhaps it's best not to bother with more Dev Diaries, especially if your heart isn't in it or you don't have time. They tend to only get around 1,000 views anyways. A better way to generate interest would be to simply not have an NDA for the beta. That way we could discuss and share screenshots with people who are actually playing the game and YouTubers could generate some buzz. After years of development and an initial announcement that focused on Unreal 3D technology rather than gameplay this game could use some buzz. Big time.
As much as I'd like to see that particular engine get up to speed and running on all turbines, I think they have real concerns that prevents it. You can show things to testers that are clear Works in Progress, and they'll happy accept it and move on to test something else or some other piece of content. But just opening it all up to the public, there is a lot of damaging perception that can come from someone seeing something WIP and completely writing off the entire game as a result. I mean, remember how poorly infantry were received? And after that, we never saw infantry again in any material. They still don't exist on the steam store page screenshots.

There isn't some malicious intent to hiding shoddy work; they just clearly aren't ready to show completed work. But after that negative reception, when it was explained infantry were WIP and still people lambasted the game over it... Is it any wonder they have become more tight lipped?

I think that will stop them from allowing anything going on in closed BETA to start flowing out freely.

proline
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by proline » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:31 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:28 am
proline wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:32 am
Perhaps it's best not to bother with more Dev Diaries, especially if your heart isn't in it or you don't have time. They tend to only get around 1,000 views anyways. A better way to generate interest would be to simply not have an NDA for the beta. That way we could discuss and share screenshots with people who are actually playing the game and YouTubers could generate some buzz. After years of development and an initial announcement that focused on Unreal 3D technology rather than gameplay this game could use some buzz. Big time.
As much as I'd like to see that particular engine get up to speed and running on all turbines, I think they have real concerns that prevents it. You can show things to testers that are clear Works in Progress, and they'll happy accept it and move on to test something else or some other piece of content. But just opening it all up to the public, there is a lot of damaging perception that can come from someone seeing something WIP and completely writing off the entire game as a result. I mean, remember how poorly infantry were received? And after that, we never saw infantry again in any material. They still don't exist on the steam store page screenshots.

There isn't some malicious intent to hiding shoddy work; they just clearly aren't ready to show completed work. But after that negative reception, when it was explained infantry were WIP and still people lambasted the game over it... Is it any wonder they have become more tight lipped?

I think that will stop them from allowing anything going on in closed BETA to start flowing out freely.
I'm sure you're right, but that's still a mistake on their part. PzC is a great game but the marketing has been amateurish* and that seems to be the case with PzC 2 as well. It's unfortunate because I really want them to make lots of money so they can keep making great games. Open betas (in terms of being able to discuss them freely) are pretty common now. The Starcraft betas were open in that respect and previously secret Apple betas (iOS, macOS) are now free to discuss.

The problem with infantry isn't that they looked bad in one dev diary. It's that we expected them to look terrible even before we saw them and they confirmed our worst fears (top down camera angles and long shadows don't flatter infantry. Making a person the same size as a tank is a lot harder to get used to in 3D than an 2D board game). Furthermore, they haven't been able to really fix infantry even a year later which says the problem is indeed more than skin deep.

*Examples include
-Releasing a Mac version that is barely playable, charging people good money for it, and leaving it on sale until three months before it stops working altogether. Talk about protecting your brand and reputation! That will get people excited for the next Slitherine product
-Talking about PzC2 many years before release. Making the development process seem long and drawn out means that you lose the interest of people who aren't hardcore fans
-Focusing the initial press release on trumpeting 3D! knowing full well the audience to that release was current fans who don't care about that but would love to hear about gameplay. The sad thing is there was a lot of great gameplay ideas, but they didn't talk to the fans about them for years. Why not talk about how great 3D looks when the game is going to actually ship?
-Giving Wargamer an exclusive interview which became the only source of info about the project for nearly a whole year filled with bizarre quotes like saying people don't want the grand campaign in PzC 2

Patrick Ward
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Patrick Ward » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:30 pm

proline wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:31 pm
Furthermore, they haven't been able to really fix infantry even a year later which says the problem is indeed more than skin deep.

The only thing that needed 'fixing' was access to enough usable mocap data so we put infantry on the backburner until we got our own system and captured it all ourselves. That's now being processed and made usable.

That's it.
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Kerensky
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Kerensky » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:25 am

proline wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:31 pm
The problem with infantry isn't that they looked bad in one dev diary. It's that we expected them to look terrible even before we saw them
I'm afraid I must disagree strongly. I think the game looks beautiful, spectacular even as you zoom way in and see really detailed tank models or rocket artillery animations and everything. I see no reason why anyone would expect infantry to look bad, and I'm still reasonably certain the final result will be more than decent. :!:
-Talking about PzC2 many years before release. Making the development process seem long and drawn out means that you lose the interest of people who aren't hardcore fans
The funny thing is, you lose those people regardless. But for the people you lose because their attention span exists for June-July 2019 no more no less... there are others who will be ready to jump on, and back off, of any given game once it finally hits release date. Show me the game that has a community population that goes up 1, 2 or 3 months after launch. And if you can find it by saying something like Fortnite or Apex legends, I will give you 100,000 games where that didn't happen. And besides, Apex Legends is trending downwards as are Battle Royales in general. No it's not a crash or the death of the genre. It's normal. You cannot have unchecked growth and then expect for that growth to be even bigger next quarter, and then again next quarter. It doesn't work that way because you eventually reach market saturation.
-Focusing the initial press release on trumpeting 3D! knowing full well the audience to that release was current fans who don't care about that but would love to hear about gameplay. The sad thing is there was a lot of great gameplay ideas, but they didn't talk to the fans about them for years. Why not talk about how great 3D looks when the game is going to actually ship?
Because that's how the system works. You can't build a building without building a foundation first. There are many, many, MANY foundational pieces required for serious high level gameplay (something the BETA has laser focus on). But there is not as much foundational work for 3D models. Yes you absolutely need the models, but a bunch of 3D models photoshopped into a background that looks like a map is worlds away from real gameplay with those elements actually being functional game pieces.

Or if you want to not have a foundation first.... Anthem anyone? They built that E3 demo of lies before the game was even begun to be pieced together. Many of their devs who had no context of what they were working on only pieced the game together based on what they also saw at E3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUopKcRLNGA
https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem- ... 1833731964
This demo became the foundation for the seven-minute gameplay trailer that BioWare showed the public a few weeks later. In June of 2017, just a few days after that last-minute name change from Beyond to Anthem, BioWare boss Aaryn Flynn took the stage of EA’s E3 press conference and announced the game. The next day, at Microsoft’s press conference, they showed a demo that helped everyone, including BioWare’s own developers, finally see how Anthem would play.

What the public didn’t know was that even then, Anthem was still in pre-production. Progress had been so slow that the demo was mostly guesswork, team members say, which is why the Anthem that actually launched looks so drastically different than the demo the team showed at E3 2017. In the real game, you have to go through a mission selection menu and a loading screen before you can leave your base in Fort Tarsis; in the demo, it all happens seamlessly. The demo is full of dynamic environments, giant creatures, and mechanics that bear little resemblance to the final product, like getting to see new loot when you pick it up rather than having to wait until the end of a mission.

“After E3, that’s when it really felt like, ‘Okay, this is the game we’re making,’” said one Anthem developer. “But it still felt like it took a while to get the entire team up to speed. It was also kind of tricky because there were still a lot of question marks. The demo was not actually built properly—a lot of it was fake, like most E3 demos. There was a lot of stuff that was like, ‘Oh are we actually doing this? Do we have the tech for that, do we have the tools for that? To what end can you fly? How big should the world be?’”
.
-Giving Wargamer an exclusive interview which became the only source of info about the project for nearly a whole year filled with bizarre quotes like saying people don't want the grand campaign in PzC 2
I reserve comment, because the Grand Campaign was my baby, and I loved and still love my baby. <3
:mrgreen: lol

proline
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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by proline » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 am

Kerensky wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:25 am
I see no reason why anyone would expect infantry to look bad, and I'm still reasonably certain the final result will be more than decent. :!:
You should expect infantry to look bad in 3D because

A) They are the size of cities and airports which looks ridiculous. In 2D there's a lot less realism and therefore a lot more ability to set your disbelief aside
B) 3D forces a top town camera view instead of the previously used side view. That makes it harder to tell all units apart but infantry are the worst affected because it is hard to tell someone's unit from what hat they are wearing.
C) Having the front of the units in shadow at all times robs them of what little distinctiveness they have. At least armored units have distinctive shadows.

Again these problems aren't easy to solve. There's a reason there's never been an infantry focused dev diary and they weren't shown for a year. I do agree with you totally that the 3D units look great zoomed in. That's not how you play though.
Kerensky wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:25 am
Because that's how the system works. You can't build a building without building a foundation first.
The foundation is actually gameplay and you can design the gameplay on a piece of paper or even just in your mind. Sure, it has to be tested, but you always get the best results when you start with a great gameplay concept. Fans want to hear first and foremost that the company understands gameplay. By all means make a trailer that shows off the 3D when you actually have something to sell. That's when people actually need to see it.
Kerensky wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:25 am
I reserve comment, because the Grand Campaign was my baby, and I loved and still love my baby.
There's no need to reserve comment. The GC is by far PzC's best attribute and what sets it apart from all the SSI versions that came before. PzC2 absolutely needs GC level content. Frankly it should have the actual GC (warmed over and rebalanced as required) as well as Pacific Japanese and American GCs. Nobody working on this game should ever say anything that remotely downplays the importance of the GC. And yes, they eventually said it was a bit of a slip of the tongue and came out wrong or whatever, but still, that's what was out there for months and months.

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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Kerensky » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:16 am

proline wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 am
You should expect infantry to look bad in 3D because...
I remain unconvinced. I'm sure they'll get there one way or another. I compare this game often to Civ V, and once infantry gets to that state, it'll be the best it can be out of the tools and camera options available.
proline wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 am
The foundation is actually gameplay and you can design the gameplay on a piece of paper or even just in your mind. Sure, it has to be tested, but you always get the best results when you start with a great gameplay concept. Fans want to hear first and foremost that the company understands gameplay. By all means make a trailer that shows off the 3D when you actually have something to sell. That's when people actually need to see it.
But they have great gameplay concepts. They've been talking about it in publicly and privately shared documents and design plans from long before the first screenshots show up. So to say they haven't properly promoted great gameplay is completely false. But do people get hyped over reading long documents? The reality is they absolutely do not. Long winded and technical documents do not make for good marketing material, that's truth. Otherwise things like dev interviews would be super hot and gameplay trailers would just get a few clicks.... That's not the world we live in. The deep gameplay is there, but it's buried in technical documents. And translating those documents into the game... that's layers and layers and mountains of foundational work that has only finally been nearing completion, as evidenced by the BETA having started! :mrgreen:
proline wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 am
There's no need to reserve comment. The GC is by far PzC's best attribute and what sets it apart from all the SSI versions that came before. PzC2 absolutely needs GC level content. Frankly it should have the actual GC (warmed over and rebalanced as required) as well as Pacific Japanese and American GCs. Nobody working on this game should ever say anything that remotely downplays the importance of the GC. And yes, they eventually said it was a bit of a slip of the tongue and came out wrong or whatever, but still, that's what was out there for months and months.
You flatter me, sir. But I don't really have anything to say on this situation. It is what it is, and I can't confirm or deny anything happening. Or not happening. :?

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Re: Dev Diaries will resume soon

Post by Stephen1024 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:32 pm

I personally prefer company takes it time makes great game not sell half job!

As for GC I found it be best part of the first game. I enjoyed the shorter campaigns but for me they were to short. I found upgraded stuff so quick you didn't have much time really learn its strengths and weaknesses. I also think GC gave much more options on objectives as lot short campaigns had more take whole map with very little differences and large parts war done in one map. That said really enjoyed Afrika Korps and Soviet Corps. Allied Corps felt was ok but early British part was way to easy. The tutorial in Allied Corps was redundant as had already completed one when first got Panzer Corps. As for Sealion was some great parts some felt little not so good.

I would say my biggest issues with GC was not enough branching, adding in Afrika Corps would been nice, would like bit more freedom when get decisive victory. (All those years Russia was hard work) Be nice to change out come of the war at different points). I would of liked better system then the 1.20 soft cap rules adding in limit on armor made end war hard slog against way to many enemy tanks and by end of the war infantry almost pointless and same for recon.

Did add points help improve infantry for Panzer Corps 2 in another thread, as for recon maybe if didn't use all its movement points in turn if was attacked takes half damage retreats to safe spot?

For me hope they do bring back GC not just German one.
I enjoy GC pacific campaign, GC allied campaign but prefer have the ability choose British or American and Soviet GC be nice to.

Yes would be nice have smaller stuff to. (That should include some smaller nations)

I think some people complain based on thinking companies on cash grab! I have to admit I dislike when feel company taking mick, Paying for couple reskins or couple silly weapons is cash grab. I am against company that does season pass then says this or that not included in season pass. As for Panzer Corps I never felt any stuff was cash grab. What was added was value for money and helped give longer life to game. I also like that we had active mods area for the game. DLC were clearly labelled so was easy see what was worth adding. I also like fact that company has worked with us to improve the game, I will say wish they changed few things they never did but that's life can't have everything. For me yeah company made mistakes at times but we all do but in general think one of the better companies.

Any my comments not aimed at been nasty I loved Panzer Corps and all DLCs and do like the company, my comments my opinions only. Faults I mention are just to give feed back on what can be improved.

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