Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

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AlbertoC
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Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by AlbertoC » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:29 pm

“Funny, but I was afraid that graphics will be at the first place in new PzC, at the expense of playability.
But it turns out that (at least at this point) the logical "layer" of the game is definitely better than the "graphic" layer”.

- kondi754

Hi all! Welcome to a new issue of Panzer Corps 2 Dev Diaries!

It has been a while since the last dev diary. But we haven’t been idle! In fact we have been very busy with the game and made some very good progress. Also, several other important events happened in the meantime. In particular:

- There have been two in-depth streams about Panzer Corps 2. The first one was focused more on the graphics, while the second one was a full-blown gameplay reveal featuring almost 40 minutes of video footage and a Q&A session. If you have not seen these videos yet, what are you waiting for?
- Panzer Corps 2 got a Steam page now! If you are interested in this game, it would be a good idea to add it your wishlist. J
- It is still not too late to apply for Panzer Corps 2 beta!

The format of this dev diary will be a bit unusual. Lately we received several questions about the game, on Slitherine, Steam and Youtube. So we’ve decided to address the most important of these questions here.

Image

Bypassing the heavily fortified Maginot Line, the Germans strike deep into France



Will there be front lines, supply lines and more advanced supply rules?

Tell us more about the new encirclement mechanics

Supply rules will play a more significant role in Panzer Corps 2, compared to Panzer Corps, but the emphasis is on the effect supply has on battlefield tactics. We did not want to burden the player with counting supply points, moving around non-combat supply units etc. We also wanted to preserve the typical very fluid and dynamic gameplay of Panzer Corps, so there are no front lines and no need to maintain them per se. All units get automatic supply every turn as long as supply is not cut off. The primary means to cut off supply in Panzer Corps 2 is encirclement. We have shown an extensive demo of encirclements in our gameplay reveal stream (https://youtu.be/Cu1xK4Abq1c?t=3032), but that video did not answer all questions, so here is some additional explanation.

There are several supply sources on the map. These are special supply hexes, as well as some units (ships in particular). Also, by default all map edge is considered supply source. As long as it’s possible to trace a supply line from a unit to one of supply sources this unit will continue getting supply (fuel and ammo) at the beginning of its turn. Supply line can be broken by impassable terrain (impassable from wheeled movement perspective), enemy units or their zone of control. The easiest way to achieve this is to completely encircle a group of enemy units with your own, making sure that all gaps in your line are at least covered by your ZOC. But terrain can also play a critical role, especially on maps which involve large bodies of water (sea, lakes and major rivers, all of which are impassable for trucks, unless they are covered with ice). In the right place, just one or a few of well-placed units can completely block supply of the enemy.

Encircled units not only stop getting supplies but also get additional suppression and penalties to initiative and accuracy, in order to reflect their reduced combat ability. All these penalties are cumulative and get worse with each extra turn spent inside encirclements.

Image

The Germans launch Operation Battleaxe against british forces in North Africa


Tell us about the new campaign in Panzer Corps 2

Main campaign included with Panzer Corps 2 will cover the European and Africna theaters from German perspective. Compared to campaigns in Panzer Corps there will be the following differences.

- In terms of size the new campaign is somewhere between the Panzer Corps vanilla campaign and the Grand Campaign. The exact scenario count is 61.
- For the first time in the Panzer Corps series Europe and Africa are combined into a single campaign tree, with core units travelling from Europe to Africa and back.
- The new campaign has four primary paths: historical West, historical East, fictional West and fictional East.
- We have taken special care that all paths are balanced in terms of length. No matter what path you take, you will play roughly the same number of scenarios, from 20 to 23.
- A unique feature of the new campaign is its extensive branching. In fact, the new campaign can be described as several campaigns in one. You can do two complete playthroughs without seeing a single repeating scenario. And the total number of possible campaign paths you can take is several thousand!

What other content will be included with Panzer Corps?

- A number of single scenarios, both historical and fictional, complementing the campaign content.
- A number of balanced scenarios designed specifically for Multiplayer.
- A tutorial section which will include tutorial campaigns as well as a number of tactical puzzles and tactical challenges, small but difficult scenarios which will help to hone your player skills.

Overall, we are looking at about 100 scenarios in 1.0, which is a huge amount of content, even without mentioning the random scenario generator, which will also be a part of initial release.


Will there be a new Grand Campaign?

This is one of the most frequent questions which we are getting, because the Grand Campaign was very popular with Panzer Corps players. Although it is a bit too early to say, we will very seriously consider making something similar, but even bigger and better, for Panzer Corps 2.


What other DLC plans do you have?

Once again, it is a bit too early to say, but our ambitions with this game are even greater than they were in Panzer Corps. If everything goes according to plan we will eventually cover all factions and all events of Second World War, including Pacific Theatre which Panzer Corps series never covered before, and also post-WW2 and Cold War era.

Image

Everything is ready for the final push towards Leningrad


Will there be a hotseat mode?


Yes.


Will there be a coop mode?

Yes, the game will support coop, both against the AI and against other human teams.


Will the game include the Editor?

Yes. We always considered our modding community to be very important and made a promise early on to provide the Editor from day one. At this point, I can say with 100% confidence that it will be included and it is pretty much finished already. It’s also a much more advanced tool compared to the Panzer Corps editor.


What languages will the game support?


The game will support English, German, French, Spanish, Russian and Simplified Chinese.


Has the beta started?


Yes! We are rolling out beta 3 this week, and there are more than 100 people testing the game already. We will be adding more people in each new beta to have a constant stream of “first impressions”. Also, we tend to add more and more people in each new iteration. So, even though we have got a lot of applications for this beta, there is a good chance that you will be selected at some point.


What are beta testers saying?

They like a lot of what they see, but also post lots of great suggestions, which we are carefully listening to. But to single out two most important points:

- General consensus seems to be that both terrain and units look great, so concerns about the graphics part of the game can be put to rest.
- All unit classes which were not very popular in Panzer Corps, like Infantry, Recon, Anti-Tank and Anti-Air are much more useful now and increasingly find their place in people’s cores.


When will the game release?

When it is ready. We are clearly getting very close now, because all major features which we planned for this game are already implemented. However, after 4 years of development, it would be foolish to rush and release an unstable game. A lot will depend on how the beta testing progresses.

Image

The Germans launch the final assault on the soviet capital of Moscow as the winter sets in

proline
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by proline » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:33 am

AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:29 pm
Hi all! Welcome to a new issue of Panzer Corps 2 Dev Diaries!
Welcome back.
AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:29 pm
- For the first time in the Panzer Corps series Europe and Africa are combined into a single campaign tree, with core units travelling from Europe to Africa and back.
This is incorrect. You could do this in Panzer General back in 1995, for example.
AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:29 pm
Overall, we are looking at about 100 scenarios in 1.0, which is a huge amount of content, even without mentioning the random scenario generator, which will also be a part of initial release.
This is actually a minuscule amount of content that can be played in a few days and easily memorized. Still, it's a great amount to release the game with, so long as more keeps coming.
AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:29 pm
[/b]This is one of the most frequent questions which we are getting, because the Grand Campaign was very popular with Panzer Corps players. Although it is a bit too early to say, we will very seriously consider making something similar, but even bigger and better, for Panzer Corps 2.
This would seem to imply that funding for the GC depends on the reception of the vanilla game. That's ok so long as every effort is made to make the vanilla game a success. Currently there aren't any playthroughs or anything on YouTube, so presumably you have the beta testers under NDA. That's your loss because that kind of thing helps create buzz and keep a community going. Many of us are excluded from the beta and even the release version of the game due to the lack of iPad and Mac support so our only hope is to enjoy the game vicariously. Having quality version for other platforms besides PC could also help expand the market.

Remember, me posting 6 hours after you and getting the first reply is not good. Because you stopped releasing content for PzC during the long development cycle of PzC 2 a lot of players have drifted away from the game and that shows in terms of forum participation. Those fans have to be earned back.

Random thoughts:

I see airplanes no longer have shadows on the ground and it looks great.

Some effort was made to make the infantry a bit distinguishable. For example, Germans point their guns at the enemy while the Russians point them at the ground. You could step it up even a little more though.

You guys really hate the hex grid even though its an important part of the gameplay.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by PanzerCro » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:51 am

proline wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:33 am
AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:29 pm
AlbertoC wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:29 pm
- For the first time in the Panzer Corps series Europe and Africa are combined into a single campaign tree, with core units travelling from Europe to Africa and back.
This is incorrect. You could do this in Panzer General back in 1995, for example.




Yup ! If you beat France with minor instead of major victory you went to North Africa instead of Sealion '40.

bebro
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by bebro » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:10 am

It refers specifically to PzC, not PG, so it is factually correct.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by iuliug » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:17 pm

"- In terms of size the new campaign is somewhere between the Panzer Corps vanilla campaign and the Grand Campaign. The exact scenario count is 61.
...
- We have taken special care that all paths are balanced in terms of length. No matter what path you take, you will play roughly the same number of scenarios, from 20 to 23."

In my opinion, having alternate paths is not the best idea. In the case of the quotes, you have created a lot of content but in a normal play through u experience only a fraction of your work. i wonder how many people replay the game to experience the content they missed. Not many , i certainly would not because i have to replay a lot of other scenarios just to experience a few new ones.

I reapply do wonder how many people like alternate paths ( from first PC), and especially extensive ones.

in my opinion u should have made a 50 mission Campaing and may 10 or so alternate if u really insisted. your hard work in creating those scenarios would have been appreciated by many more people.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by Rudankort » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:42 pm

iuliug wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:17 pm
In my opinion, having alternate paths is not the best idea. In the case of the quotes, you have created a lot of content but in a normal play through u experience only a fraction of your work. i wonder how many people replay the game to experience the content they missed. Not many , i certainly would not because i have to replay a lot of other scenarios just to experience a few new ones.
You have not quoted another point which is fairly important:

In fact, the new campaign can be described as several campaigns in one. You can do two complete playthroughs without seeing a single repeating scenario.

So, you don't necessarily need to replay the same scenarios in order to see new ones. We could make two separate campaigns instead, but we thought that it would be much better if the players have freedom and can choose for themselves which events of WW2 they want to recreate in their playthroughs.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by proline » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:23 am

bebro wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:10 am
It refers specifically to PzC, not PG, so it is factually correct.
This game claims to be “the spiritual successor to the Panzer General series” in many official places including Steam. Part of being someone's successor is remembering their victories and losses. A good successor does not ask for applause for something its predecessor did 24 years sooner. Of course Panzer General wasn't all good times. SSI eventually ruined the game with a focus on 3D over gameplay and turning off the hex grid all the time 🤔

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by Retributarr » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:02 am

proline wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:23 am
bebro wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:10 am
It refers specifically to PzC, not PG, so it is factually correct.
This game claims to be “the spiritual successor to the Panzer General series” in many official places including Steam. Part of being someone's successor is remembering their victories and losses. A good successor does not ask for applause for something its predecessor did 24 years sooner. Of course Panzer General wasn't all good times. SSI eventually ruined the game with a focus on 3D over gameplay and turning off the hex grid all the time 🤔
SSI eventually ruined the game with a focus on 3D over gameplay and turning off the hex grid all the time 🤔
I didn't particularily like SSI' 3-D game and also...I do prefer to use 'Hexes'!.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by Stephen1024 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:16 am

Would be nice if people bit less negative.

I personally waiting till can play the game before making any comments about it. Yes feedback always good thing but lot seem be negative without game even been out.

As for marketing I would imagine after so many years of building game they have plan for marketing it once its in ready enough state.

People also have to remember what comes out day 1 and what will end game be like will be very different things. PzC had lot of DLC and lot patching which changed the game. That been said does worry me as some might hold off buying when first out especially if not sure direction team planning. Yes do understand to that future plans also depend on sales. But plans do sound good and hope all goes well with launch.

I would say hope we get bit notice before the release date. I am carer so money tight and have plan ahead so notice is nice so can be ready. Maybe a loyalty plan save bit money for future DLCs might not be bad idea. PzC had lot of DLCs which think would done better if you gave loyalty discount to those that bought all early. My personal thoughts are game like Crusader kings 2 wasn't going spend the amount they wanted for game and all DLC wasn't worth it to me especially as have budget. (Did eventually buy it humble bundle for about 15 dollars for game most DLCs That good warning over miss use of DLCs people just wait till they get deal.) That said was happy buy grand campaign and all DLCs for PzC as felt got money worth out of those DLCs. As said discount as in a Expansion passes for stuff would help. Expansion pass that covered full grand campaign might draw attention and early revenue. You could then use other expansion passes for other things eg pacific campaign etc (Depending how big planning it to be) Talking to community and working with should lead to happy mix of what people willing spend and expect for it.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by proline » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:40 am

Stephen1024 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:16 am
As for marketing I would imagine after so many years of building game they have plan for marketing it once its in ready enough state.
I'm sure they "have a plan" as well. The thing is, the year is 2019. It's not enough to wait until the game is done then buy some ads. Word of mouth matters a lot more today (and the way Mac and iPad users have been treated by Slitherine doesn't help). Social media matters- not just doing the posts but getting people engaged. This thread has 500 views- that's not good enough. Getting the engagement may mean working with people who already have an audience- YouTubers and the like. Making beta testers sign an NDA is counterproductive to this. Making content for their existing game also drives engagement- it's been far too long since US corps came out. Having a simulateous release on multiple platforms helps as well- people are more likely to buy a new game than a port that comes out years later. And if you can't do it simultaneously, at least do it promptly and be honest about when it will happen.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by George_Parr » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:43 pm

proline wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:23 am
bebro wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:10 am
It refers specifically to PzC, not PG, so it is factually correct.
This game claims to be “the spiritual successor to the Panzer General series” in many official places including Steam. Part of being someone's successor is remembering their victories and losses. A good successor does not ask for applause for something its predecessor did 24 years sooner. Of course Panzer General wasn't all good times. SSI eventually ruined the game with a focus on 3D over gameplay and turning off the hex grid all the time 🤔
Whether the game claims to be the spiritual successor of PG couldn't be less relevant when judging the quote you mentioned. They made a statement that was factually true. Your post above looks more like shifting the goalposts on your part then an actual counter to the argument that was made.
proline wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:40 am
Making content for their existing game also drives engagement- it's been far too long since US corps came out.
And who exactly is supposed to make new content for the old game?
It's extremely rare for a game to get new content when the follow-up is already in development. And I can't really think of any game that got new content after the sequel had already been announced (and not just been in development internally). The whole point of a new game is to start fresh. For that you need the people involved to focus on the new release, not have them split time on two games. This is even more true when the number of people involved in making the game isn't particularly large.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by RVallant » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:31 pm

I've applied belatedly to the beta.

I agree with dispensing with the 'front line' and supply mechanics, I wasn't too hot on either of these from Order of Battle. That split and encirclement looked far too clever for me to pull off! :P It looks pretty neat though, I wonder how it would work in more open terrain like in Russia, because I remember in a lot of scenarios in the original PzC I would often bypass a lot of cities etc with my tanks and just leave them for the infantry to mop up. I wonder how it would affect me tactically by doing this now? Would I be the one caught out if I don't mop up quickly enough etc?

I think I'd have to play with the mechanic to understand how it works more clearly, but it looks pretty neat.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by DrewF » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:34 pm

I hope the vanilla campaign doesn’t include the “surprise, mission objectives have changed” scripts of the PZ1 GC.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by Retributarr » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 am

DrewF wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:34 pm
I hope the vanilla campaign doesn’t include the “surprise, mission objectives have changed” scripts of the PZ1 GC.
doesn’t include the “surprise, mission objectives have changed” :shock:

Alway's!...Expect'...The-Unexpected!!!.

Since when is any Combat Situation fully understood before-hand?/in advance?...almost 'Never'.

Even..."Eisenhower" told his Operational Planners...something to the effect that..."by all means...Planning is Essential...continue to do your Planning...even though Planning usually doesn't work out the way we think or hope it should".

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by DrewF » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:43 am

Retributarr wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 am
DrewF wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:34 pm
I hope the vanilla campaign doesn’t include the “surprise, mission objectives have changed” scripts of the PZ1 GC.
doesn’t include the “surprise, mission objectives have changed” :shock:

Alway's!...Expect'...The-Unexpected!!!.

Since when is any Combat Situation fully understood before-hand?/in advance?...almost 'Never'.

Thanks for the warning! My view is that the surprises would be fine if they were randomized but seem out of place in a strategy game where ( unless playing Ironman which I suspect few will do ) simply means that you restart the map having learn what’s going on.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by RVallant » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:48 pm

DrewF wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:43 am
Retributarr wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 am
DrewF wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:34 pm
I hope the vanilla campaign doesn’t include the “surprise, mission objectives have changed” scripts of the PZ1 GC.
doesn’t include the “surprise, mission objectives have changed” :shock:

Alway's!...Expect'...The-Unexpected!!!.

Since when is any Combat Situation fully understood before-hand?/in advance?...almost 'Never'.

Thanks for the warning! My view is that the surprises would be fine if they were randomized but seem out of place in a strategy game where ( unless playing Ironman which I suspect few will do ) simply means that you restart the map having learn what’s going on.

Eh, why restart? Surely the point, especially on Ironman is to take the unexpected things on the chin and try and mitigate it as best as you can when they pop up. Metagaming the scenario kind of defeats the point imo.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #10

Post by Patrick Ward » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:24 pm

No plan survives contact with the enemy, said someone famous. Aren't surprise and change par for the course?
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Pat a Pixel Pusher

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No response on Beta join request

Post by borgia1291 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:37 am

Hi all, I sent in a request to join the Panzercorps 2 beta weeks ago but no response at all. Quite disappointing!
Hope to hear something soon!

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Re: No response on Beta join request

Post by Patrick Ward » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:44 am

borgia1291 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:37 am
Hi all, I sent in a request to join the Panzercorps 2 beta weeks ago but no response at all. Quite disappointing!
Hope to hear something soon!
We stagger the invites with every beta release so we're more likely to get some feedback on the new release.

As we already mentioned, the current Beta 4 was delayed due to a significant hardware failure. Thats been dealt with but I currently have no date for its release.
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 64&t=93914

Pat Ward
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Pat a Pixel Pusher

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Re: No response on Beta join request

Post by borgia1291 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:15 pm

Patrick Ward wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:44 am
borgia1291 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:37 am
Hi all, I sent in a request to join the Panzercorps 2 beta weeks ago but no response at all. Quite disappointing!
Hope to hear something soon!
We stagger the invites with every beta release so we're more likely to get some feedback on the new release.

As we already mentioned, the current Beta 4 was delayed due to a significant hardware failure. Thats been dealt with but I currently have no date for its release.
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 64&t=93914

Pat Ward
Art Director/Artist
Thank you for answering swiftly Pat!
Hopefully Beta 4 can start soon!
Cheers
Christoph

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