Capture prestige boni are much too high....

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o_t_d_x
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
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Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by o_t_d_x » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:35 pm

Since i am capturing often, i dont have to care about prestige. I even gave elite replacement to auxilarys, because it doesnt matter. Won Moscow 43 in fst. try on field marshal and i dont think that it would be a problem on generalissimus. Liberator and double capture boni, combined with killer anti air makes the game super duper easy. The last trait takes the allied air force out of the game completly. 3 elite 88s kill everything, most of the time the planes dont even dare to attack. And on smaller maps, when you have 2 88s on hills, so they can fire at the same target, they kill them all completly. Anti Air trait is a sure nerf candiat. 8)

From now on these 3 traits are illegal for me.

nexusno2000
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by nexusno2000 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:37 pm

o_t_d_x wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:35 pm
Since i am capturing often, i dont have to care about prestige. I even gave elite replacement to auxilarys, because it doesnt matter. Won Moscow 43 in fst. try on field marshal and i dont think that it would be a problem on generalissimus. Liberator and double capture boni, combined with killer anti air makes the game super duper easy. The last trait takes the allied air force out of the game completly. 3 elite 88s kill everything, most of the time the planes dont even dare to attack. And on smaller maps, when you have 2 88s on hills, so they can fire at the same target, they kill them all completly. Anti Air trait is a sure nerf candiat. 8)

From now on these 3 traits are illegal for me.
Very astute observation.

I don't play with Liberator or Trophies. On low difficulty, it's not needed. On high difficulty, it just takes away the whole point of high difficulty...

Try combining your 3 88s with 3 flak-4lings :D
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Edmon
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by Edmon » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:09 pm

o_t_d_x wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:35 pm
Since i am capturing often, i dont have to care about prestige. I even gave elite replacement to auxilarys, because it doesnt matter. Won Moscow 43 in fst. try on field marshal and i dont think that it would be a problem on generalissimus. Liberator and double capture boni, combined with killer anti air makes the game super duper easy. The last trait takes the allied air force out of the game completly. 3 elite 88s kill everything, most of the time the planes dont even dare to attack. And on smaller maps, when you have 2 88s on hills, so they can fire at the same target, they kill them all completly. Anti Air trait is a sure nerf candiat. 8)

From now on these 3 traits are illegal for me.
There is a big gulf between Field Marshal and Generalissimus. You get 50% less prestige in Generalissimus.

Your lucky to find the liberator hero, he is pretty powerful with Liberator the perk. I never got one, so I've had to live without an easy prestige farm. It has at times been tight...

Killer AA is a nice trait, basically manditory if you are running denied airforce.

jeffoot77
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by jeffoot77 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 pm

it is very rare to get liberator trait .And even with it, you just haven't to take double capture boni in the traits : if you play in field marshal difficulty , what is the interest to choose "double capture boni" ? it is like you try to compense the lack of prestige but if you want more prestige, why you don't play in normal difficulty?
my custom single player mini-campaign in order of battle : normandie-niemen:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=374&t=79333&p=676302#p676302

Edmon
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by Edmon » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:43 pm

jeffoot77 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 pm
it is very rare to get liberator trait .And even with it, you just haven't to take double capture boni in the traits : if you play in field marshal difficulty , what is the interest to choose "double capture boni" ? it is like you try to compense the lack of prestige but if you want more prestige, why you don't play in normal difficulty?
There is a lot of strategy in picking traits, generalissimus forces your hand into taking liberator a lot of the time and that means you can't get something else...

o_t_d_x
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by o_t_d_x » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:21 pm

At the beginning i was looking for the most effective traits. Now i see them as a good way to balance the game and create my perfect difficulty.

Anti Air is so powerful, i would call it SAM missiles for the wehrmacht. Its like an no air force for allies trait, if you do it right. And now that i play without it, i see how much prestige i have to spend because ai makes so much damage with air force. Even if i have 5 Fighters, there is always an unguarded ground target, especially tanks. This trait is like two diffs down. So if somebody uses it on generalissimus, he plays in reality the diff below field marshal.
Last edited by o_t_d_x on Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SineMora
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by SineMora » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:38 pm

Edmon wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:43 pm
There is a lot of strategy in picking traits, generalissimus forces your hand into taking liberator a lot of the time and that means you can't get something else...
I'd argue that neither Liberator nor Trophies of War is needed if you plan accordingly. I finished Dunkirk again last night with over 10000 prestige on Generalissimus with Rommel/Guderian/no heroes/no Liberator or Trophies of War. It turns out they're not needed because capturing is simply broken.
Mildly pretentious Swede. Goes by Path on most platforms, including Steam.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=596&t=98034 -- Generalissimus AAR (no Trophies / Heroes)

Edmon
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by Edmon » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:56 pm

Diffculty is always going to be subjective and the best players will always find ways to win no matter what they pick...

Capturing is definitely much more powerful than I originally gave it credit for. Especially all that polish cav, it's worth a small fortune.

ErissN6
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by ErissN6 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:57 pm

Beware the first scenario are duper, it is badly conceived, keep the more prestige you can for the following.

SineMora
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by SineMora » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:59 pm

And those lovely AA batteries. Many of them are worth more than 300 prestige a piece.
Mildly pretentious Swede. Goes by Path on most platforms, including Steam.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=596&t=98034 -- Generalissimus AAR (no Trophies / Heroes)

nexusno2000
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by nexusno2000 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:03 pm

SineMora wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:59 pm
And those lovely AA batteries. Many of them are worth more than 300 prestige a piece.
Even the small ones are sooo tasty...
Green Knight
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenKnight2001

eskuche
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by eskuche » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:46 pm

You can bag an SU-6 mobile 22 attack AA in gates of Moscow (!). Also KVs are a good snatch. I’m regretting not killing more for experience and catching too much. I can’t even use the money because of delayed reinforcements.

SineMora
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by SineMora » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:50 pm

eskuche wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:46 pm
You can bag an SU-6 mobile 22 attack AA in gates of Moscow (!). Also KVs are a good snatch. I’m regretting not killing more for experience and catching too much. I can’t even use the money because of delayed reinforcements.
That is the con of playing to capture. I have similar experiences so far with my airforce and artillery being the only ones who are really gaining experience properly. The rest are lagging behind badly.
Mildly pretentious Swede. Goes by Path on most platforms, including Steam.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=596&t=98034 -- Generalissimus AAR (no Trophies / Heroes)

Rood
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by Rood » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:00 am

I agree that the prestige bonus for capturing units is too high.
After I finished Kiev (which is ideal for capturing so many units) I had 10k prestige.

I do have the Liberator trait and do try to take every city.

o_t_d_x
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by o_t_d_x » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:16 pm

Dont know if its a fact or only a feeling: 8 out of 10 times the combat calculation is worse then shown. (but when i try to capture its the opposite, often better which is bad in the case of capturing) So i tried the trait bad luck.

Ironically this trait is a double positiv trait for me:

1. Often when i encircled an enemy unit the combat outcome was better then i wanted it. As a result the enemy died, instead of beeing captured. With bad luck you capture always, if you want it.
2. Bad luck gives you 2 trait points, which i used for panzer general. btw: Panzer General not only makes panzers cheaper in slot regards, it gives you overstrength for free. (except the small prestige cost, but no slots for 11 tanks, 11 pak, etc.)
(maybe you all know that already, i didnt)

So with bad logistics and bad luck you get 4 trait points and the so called bad traits dont harm me at all. 8)

Rood
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by Rood » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:52 pm

I didn't know about the 1 overstrength without a core slot cost, there probably is a cost but it gets rounded down.

I just keep learning new stuff :D

SineMora
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by SineMora » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:56 pm

Indeed, that is a result of rounding, e.g., any unit with a core cost of 1 can be OSed to 12 for only prestige as the cost is rounded down from 1.4 to 1.
Mildly pretentious Swede. Goes by Path on most platforms, including Steam.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=596&t=98034 -- Generalissimus AAR (no Trophies / Heroes)

eddieballgame
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by eddieballgame » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:08 pm

A good friend of mine & I are doing a '1 Trait' Challenge', while allowing for a couple of reloads if one chooses 'Killerteam'.
I could not convince him to do a '0 Trait Challenge'.:)
Also...we are playing on 'Colonel'. :)

nexusno2000
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by nexusno2000 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:48 pm

eddieballgame wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:08 pm
A good friend of mine & I are doing a '1 Trait' Challenge', while allowing for a couple of reloads if one chooses 'Killerteam'.
I could not convince him to do a '0 Trait Challenge'.:)
Also...we are playing on 'Colonel'. :)
This is the problem with random rewards like killer team. Just redo until you get a really good combo. Since so many hero combos are bonkers it gets lame pretty quick.
Green Knight
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Resolute
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Re: Capture prestige boni are much too high....

Post by Resolute » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:19 pm

o_t_d_x wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:35 pm
Since i am capturing often, i dont have to care about prestige. I even gave elite replacement to auxilarys, because it doesnt matter. Won Moscow 43 in fst. try on field marshal and i dont think that it would be a problem on generalissimus. Liberator and double capture boni, combined with killer anti air makes the game super duper easy. The last trait takes the allied air force out of the game completly. 3 elite 88s kill everything, most of the time the planes dont even dare to attack. And on smaller maps, when you have 2 88s on hills, so they can fire at the same target, they kill them all completly. Anti Air trait is a sure nerf candiat. 8)

From now on these 3 traits are illegal for me.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with your statement. The difference between FM and Generalissimus is pretty substantial and with your setup you still need to cover 4 traits (5 with Auxc) and the negative ones usually do not make up for the positve ones. I don't think you need liberator or torphies (I still manage to get Karl and Gustav playing Generalissimus without those) but the prestige drain on Generalissimus is fairly substaniel, especially later in the campaign because capturing units is not as easy as in the earlier scenarios.

Besides, the most impact on how your campaign is going, is defined by what heroes you're getting. There is a huge difference between "zero slots"+"Envelopment" or doube "First Aid".

So far, I'd say the game is fairly balanced on Generalissimus. Prestige on any difficulty below that (for experienced players) should not be a problem.

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