Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
Post Reply
Temple
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:23 pm

Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Temple » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:59 am

I like the DLC that have been released, but I've always had some interest in the warfare of the period before that covered in the game. Is there a chance that we might see a DLC for pre-680 BC armies? I realize that there would be a lot more conjecture for warfare of, say, the Hittites and the Akkadians, but I'd still like to see something covering that period. Would it require much of a change to the game engine for instance?

Lysimachos
Major - Jagdpanther
Major - Jagdpanther
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:38 am
Location: Italy

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Lysimachos » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:15 am

It would be wonderful to have such an add-on and I think that no great changes would been required to replicate the battle conditions of that era!
"Audentis fortuna iuvat"
- Virgilius

(Good luck favours the brave)

BillLottJr
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by BillLottJr » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:06 pm

Temple wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:59 am
I like the DLC that have been released, but I've always had some interest in the warfare of the period before that covered in the game. Is there a chance that we might see a DLC for pre-680 BC armies? I realize that there would be a lot more conjecture for warfare of, say, the Hittites and the Akkadians, but I'd still like to see something covering that period. Would it require much of a change to the game engine for instance?
There was some support for a "Swifter than Eagles" DLC in this thread. viewtopic.php?f=477&t=83095

Temple
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Temple » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:17 pm

Ah, very good, glad it is being discussed.

Geordietaf
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Geordietaf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:23 pm

Pondering human sacrifice to the Slitherine gods to get Swifter than Eagles. Any volunteers?

Patrick Ward
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Patrick Ward » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:07 pm

Reviews and positive comments on Steam, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Vimeo, and where ever else does more than any sacrifice .. believe me .. I've tried ..
..........................

Pat a Pixel Pusher

..........................

Temple
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Temple » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:33 am

Geordietaf wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:23 pm
Pondering human sacrifice to the Slitherine gods to get Swifter than Eagles. Any volunteers?
I've got in-laws I won't miss...

Geordietaf
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Geordietaf » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:49 pm

Patrick Ward wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:07 pm
Reviews and positive comments on Steam, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Vimeo, and where ever else does more than any sacrifice .. believe me .. I've tried ..
If at first you don't succeed....

Geordietaf
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Geordietaf » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:49 pm

Temple wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:33 am
Geordietaf wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:23 pm
Pondering human sacrifice to the Slitherine gods to get Swifter than Eagles. Any volunteers?
I've got in-laws I won't miss...
:D

MVP7
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by MVP7 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:41 pm

Here's a question I have asked in 4 or 5 threads by now but no one has ever answered. Would Swifter than Eagles actually make an interesting standalone setting for a FoG2 dlc?

As far as I have looked into the subject, pre-greek warfare was almost purely ox/pony-chariots and massed light infantry with possibly a tiny bit of heavy infantry for some cultures. The rest (including how the mentioned troops actually fought) is pure conjecture and guesswork.

On the level of detail of FoG2, and following similar logic when it comes to historical sources, I just don't see how Swifter Than Eagles could be particularly interesting. Unless I'm completely misinformed about the era, the entire DLC would consist of a bunch of highly homogeneous armies where any differences would be highly arbitrary.

I just don't see how the subject could be stretched into a full DLC, unless it is used as an excuse for making some general engine upgrades and game enhancements that would be too time consuming to do pro bono.

julianbarker
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:10 am

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by julianbarker » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:38 pm

That's a bit like saying Belisarius was just a load of people on horses that added nothing to the game! BTW, there is very little information on how armies fought for most ancient and medieval armies. Lots of theory, but very little fact.

Geordietaf
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Geordietaf » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:37 pm

It also dismisses a huge segment of the Ancient period (basically the Bronze Age) from Sumeria, through the Egyptian Old Middle and New kingdoms, the Mycenaean Greeks, the Babylonians and Assyrians, Hittites, Hyksos, Sea Peoples; the rise of the chariot arm from the lumbering war wagons at the outset to the light chariotry of the Egyptians. Armour use increased among the infantry and the cavalry arm eventually supplanted the chariot, exemplified by the Assyrian lancers. I would never suggest that any period is unworthy of coverage in FoG2, even though the later and early middle age armies don't happen to be my particular thing. I would just point out that things didn't just 'get interesting' after 680BC

I would also like to respectfully point out that we were promised StE with FoG1 and it never happened. Is it too much to ask that the older period gets a look-in in the foreseeable future?

Temple
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Temple » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:54 pm

Geordietaf wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:37 pm
It also dismisses a huge segment of the Ancient period (basically the Bronze Age) from Sumeria, through the Egyptian Old Middle and New kingdoms, the Mycenaean Greeks, the Babylonians and Assyrians, Hittites, Hyksos, Sea Peoples; the rise of the chariot arm from the lumbering war wagons at the outset to the light chariotry of the Egyptians. Armour use increased among the infantry and the cavalry arm eventually supplanted the chariot, exemplified by the Assyrian lancers. I would never suggest that any period is unworthy of coverage in FoG2, even though the later and early middle age armies don't happen to be my particular thing. I would just point out that things didn't just 'get interesting' after 680BC
These are excellent points and hopefully the community will continue to express interest in having a Swifter Than Eagles DLC for FoG2.

MVP7
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by MVP7 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:27 pm

julianbarker wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:38 pm
That's a bit like saying Belisarius was just a load of people on horses that added nothing to the game! BTW, there is very little information on how armies fought for most ancient and medieval armies. Lots of theory, but very little fact.
To be frank, Age of Belisarius does have too many cavalry armies and nowhere near the variety of the Rise of Rome setting. Looking at the army lists, it's more of a further development of what was already set in motion in the Legions Triumphant era than anything truly new and ground breaking with just a glimpse of the bigger changes to come. I guess that's why it was a bit smaller and cheaper DLC than the first two.

While it is true that there is little in the past that can be considered an objective fact, post-greek and medieval armies and battles are still generally far more documented and well preserved than the doings of the really ancient civilizations.

For clarification, I'm not opposing the addition of older armies to the FoG2. I just don't think there would be enough variety or even content for a full DLC from a game design point of view (unless the devs suddenly decide to take a more Creative Assembly-esque approach to the historical accuracy of the game). Let's break it down:

Epic Battles:
There's the Battle of Kadesh circa 1274 BC and that's about it. Most of the other battles of the era are extremely badly documented to a degree where half of them haven't even been confirmed to have happened. There is definitely not enough for more than a couple hand crafted Epic Battles. Even coming up with a decent number of quick battles would be challenging.

Historic Campaigns:
There's probably enough for a decent Egyptian campaign but that's about it. In general the campaigns would have to be just a series of skirmishes against factions that the player faction has probably or possibly fought against.

Army Lists:
The major armies would look something like this:
- Ranged Chariots
- Massed archers
- Medium swordsmen
- Medium spearmen
- Light archers/slingers/javelins
- Cavalry for the later lists
Beyond that, the differences between the different army lists would be highly speculative. Egypt could have a faster and lighter set of chariots and more archers than the others, Hittites could have more and better infantry (maybe even heavy spearmen) etc. Most of the differences would be pure conjecture based on tiny bits of information from questionable sources. There would practically be only one major army type, a light/medium infantry mass with chariots. The minor factions would be even more speculative and stripped down versions of the same army type. Compare that to the Rise of Rome setting with hoplite armies, Macedonian style armies, Roman style armies, barbarian infantry armies, barbarian cavalry armies, eastern cavalry armies and Indian armies, not to mention the armies that mix the different types.

I think a pre-classical DLC would have enough content for about half a DLC (or a half-priced DLC) and even that would require far more artistic licence and guesswork than any FoG2 setting so far. One possible way to stretch it into a full DLC would be also expanding to the China but that would probably increase the amount of needed modelling/texturing too much.

hjc
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:05 am

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by hjc » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:01 pm

Swifter than Eagles is lower down my list of preferred releases ( looking forward to Swords and Scimitars most of all ) but I would still get it.

Belisarius surprised me with how much I enjoy commanding the Picts, Scots and Welsh. In fact I wonder how many others feel as I do - release DLC for this game and I will buy it :)

Speaking of which: any clues about what DLC is next in line?

Geordietaf
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:19 pm

Re: Any chance of a DLC covering the period before 680 BC?

Post by Geordietaf » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:24 pm

Temple wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:54 pm
Geordietaf wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:37 pm
It also dismisses a huge segment of the Ancient period (basically the Bronze Age) from Sumeria, through the Egyptian Old Middle and New kingdoms, the Mycenaean Greeks, the Babylonians and Assyrians, Hittites, Hyksos, Sea Peoples; the rise of the chariot arm from the lumbering war wagons at the outset to the light chariotry of the Egyptians. Armour use increased among the infantry and the cavalry arm eventually supplanted the chariot, exemplified by the Assyrian lancers. I would never suggest that any period is unworthy of coverage in FoG2, even though the later and early middle age armies don't happen to be my particular thing. I would just point out that things didn't just 'get interesting' after 680BC
These are excellent points and hopefully the community will continue to express interest in having a Swifter Than Eagles DLC for FoG2.
I think MVP7 and I are just going to have to differ on the merits of the pre 680 BC period. There is a wealth of information including inscriptions, engravings, detailed documentary records as well as archaeological evidence about the early period, more indeed than for the immediate post-roman period. The Army lists and epic battles in the later periods are also in many cases speculative and conjectural. This is an excellent game, but it is not a time machine.

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory II”