Field of Glory II Tournament

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
devoncop
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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by devoncop » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:53 pm

If I can add my twopenneth to this.

If a player faces someone who quits and only achieves a minimum win that is very unlucky as Rexhurley experienced.

On the other hand...if I played someone who was winning against me in % terms but then cleared off and abandoned the game through real life issues or distraction by the latest Rome Total War expansion (God forbid!) then I would be gaining a minimum of 85 points under the proposed new system which would be equally very lucky.

My point is that for every upside in such a system there is a downside in terms of fairness. The best way to average these things out is to increase the number of rounds (as the latest tournament does) so a single drop out has a much reduced impact on final standings and increases the chances all players may gain or lose from the "dropout" phenomenon equally.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:14 pm

devoncop wrote:If I can add my twopenneth to this.

If a player faces someone who quits and only achieves a minimum win that is very unlucky as Rexhurley experienced.

On the other hand...if I played someone who was winning against me in % terms but then cleared off and abandoned the game through real life issues or distraction by the latest Rome Total War expansion (God forbid!) then I would be gaining a minimum of 85 points under the proposed new system which would be equally very lucky.

My point is that for every upside in such a system there is a downside in terms of fairness. The best way to average these things out is to increase the number of rounds (as the latest tournament does) so a single drop out has a much reduced impact on final standings and increases the chances all players may gain or lose from the "dropout" phenomenon equally.
I think that nearly all resignations occur because a player is losing heavily, or expects to lose heavily. Only very occasionally would there be a different reason. So I think at the moment the scoring system disadvantages the better players to a certain extent. It can also effect the outcome of the tournament. I won the first competition only because another player (ianiow) had his first round matches awarded to him because of an opponent defaulting. In the second competition I also had an opponent default in the first round and ended up in fifth place when I might have finished third. So both tournaments were significantly affected by this issue.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:15 pm

shawkhan2 wrote:I think it would be simple enough to consider the resigning player's army broken/routed in event of resignation, at either the 40% or 60% level, whichever is more appropriate and score accordingly.
My major gripe with the tournament rules as they stand is the opponent selection process. When an experienced player is pitted against a newbie, he is likely to achieve an unrealistically high score, making luck a huge determiner of success in scoring. We desperately need a rating system for players, matching opponents of approximately equal ability if tournament results are expected to be representative of overall ability. It would be easy enough to rate tournament players by the average scores they have achieved in games played. Have players compete by tiers, according to their ratings and newbies would not have to be humiliated on the battlefield by the current masters of mayhem present. This I think would be a positive step for the hobby.
Richard has said that a rating system and seedings are in the pipeline so this should help to reduce the number of uneven match-ups, particularly in the first round.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by devoncop » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:04 pm

Also Pete I think your League will eliminate this issue completely won't it?

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:29 pm

devoncop wrote:Also Pete I think your League will eliminate this issue completely won't it?
Yes, the FOGDL carries on in the tradition of LOEG with promotion and relegation so the number of uneven matches where resignations might occur is significantly reduced. A player resigning will get nothing and the winner will get the standard 4pts. And what I will do is use the standings in the various automated tournaments (plus what I know about players from FOG1) as a guide when I come to allocate places in the various divisions for the first season. A FOG2DL rating system will also be set-up and once players have completed 15 matches they will get a rating which we will use (again as a guide) for subsequent seasons.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by devoncop » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:37 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
devoncop wrote:Also Pete I think your League will eliminate this issue completely won't it?
Yes, the FOGDL carries on in the tradition of LOEG with promotion and relegation so the number of uneven matches where resignations might occur is significantly reduced. A player resigning will get nothing and the winner will get the standard 4pts. And what I will do is use the standings in the various automated tournaments (plus what I know about players from FOG1) as a guide when I come to allocate places in the various divisions for the first season. A FOG2DL rating system will also be set-up and once players have completed 15 matches they will get a rating which we will use (again as a guide) for subsequent seasons.
As they say in various bureaucratic government quangos....sounds like "best practice" :D

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by rexhurley » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:28 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
And thanks Pete that suggestion would at leave some balance to it rather than this although I would still rather see people made to play to conclusion since they have knowingly entered a "tournament".
Unfortunately that can never work. What we need is a system where players can resign without rancour and a scoring system that rewards the players who have caused those resignations.
Eloquently said precisely what I was trying to say but didn't know how thank you

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:50 am

stockwellpete wrote:
stockwellpete wrote:I have just been looking at this tournament in terms of the number of players dropping out and the number of matches being timed out. Remember here that there was only a 7 day turn around for matches whereas later tournaments now have a 10 day turn around.

In Round 1 13 of the 64 matches were timed out.
In Round 2 23 of the 58 matches were timed out.
In Round 3 23 of the 54 matches were timed out.

So, in total, one third (33.6%) of matches were timed out.

It is also noticeable that the proportion of matches being timed out by players at the bottom of the table was much higher. 80% of matches involving players in the bottom ten places of the table in Rounds 2 and 3 were timed out.

Edit: 14 out of the 64 players entering did not complete the three rounds of the tournament (I had originally calculated this at 10 but forgot to include those players who "no-showed" in Round 3).

Any thoughts?
I have now looked at the second tournament for the same statistics. Remember, this was a smaller 32 player tournament and 10 days (not 7 days) was allowed for each match.

In Round 1 2 of the 32 matches were timed out.
In Round 2 5 of the 32 matches were timed out.
In Round 3 9 of the 30 matches were timed out.

So, in total, 17% of matches were timed out, around half the rate of the first tournament.

40% of matches involving players in the bottom ten places of the table in Rounds 2 and 3 were timed out this time, again at about half the rate of the first tournament.

Edit: And just 4 out of the 32 players entering did not complete the three rounds of the tournament. (I had originally calculated this at 2 but forgot to include those players who "no-showed" in Round 3).
Statistics for the third tournament, (which had 64 players and allowed 10 days for matches, so it makes for a good comparison with the first tournament) are as follows . . .

Round 1 9 of the 64 matches were timed out.
In Round 2 7 of the 62 matches were timed out.
In Round 3 20 of the 60 matches were timed out.

So, in total, 19% of matches were timed out, compared to 33% in the first tournament. So extending the match time to 10 days seems to have had quite a beneficial effect.

30% of matches involving players in the bottom ten places of the table in Rounds 2 and 3 were timed out this time, which again is lower than the first tournament.

And 7 out of the 64 players entering did not complete the three rounds of the tournament.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament

Post by Igorputski » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:44 pm

2 out of 3 is the best system if you played 3 matches per match.

First guy plays romans, 2nd guy plays carthage

first guy plays carthage, 2nd guy plays romans

3rd match the least routed percentage of the two matches combined gets choice who to play in this match either carthage or romans.

In case of a tie a random die roll determines who gets choice 1-3-5 the first guy, 2-4-6 the 2nd guy or any combination of 3 numbers to 6. might be 1-3 and 4-6 or 1-4-6 and 2-3-5 etc. :lol:

No matter what is done though there is always going to be that chance (like any given sunday in football) that the lesser player (like cleveland browns) is going to advance over the better player. That's just life as there is no clear ruleset that will ever be perfect for tournaments as long as there is a chance for a tie.

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