Questions about Game Mechanics

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
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Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:52 pm

OK, now I've that I've played through the tutorials, read the manual, and played two epic battles (actually, really quite epic), I have a few questions about game mechanics--sometimes during the game I couldn't figure out why I could or could not do something. Can anyone explain what I'm missing in the situations below? Thanks in advance for any help.

CHARGING:
SITUATION 1: Why can't my Macedonian cavalry unit (in blue box) charge the enemy unit in the red box?
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But it can charge the unit indicate in the red box below? It seems like it is out of its charging arc, plus would have to go through the ZoC of the cav unit shown in the red box in the picture above?
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SITUATION 2: Similarly, why can't my cavalry unit (in blue box) charge the enemy unit shown in the red box below?
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SITUATION 3: Finally, in the picture below, neither of my units in the blue box could charge either of the units in the red box:
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SITUATION 4: Another issue not related to charging: sometimes my units could not move or do anything else, despite having all of their AP (see orange boxes in lower left). In the first picture below, my unit actually has MORE than all of its AP (somehow). And yet neither of the units shown below could move, turn, withdraw, or do anything else.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:58 pm

Most of these situations are to do with "zone of control" (ZOC). See 12.1.1 of the manual.

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:26 pm

stockwellpete wrote:Most of these situations are to do with "zone of control" (ZOC). See 12.1.1 of the manual.
And if you click once on the crossed-out charge icon, a tooltip will appear telling you which unit's ZOC is preventing you from charging.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:39 pm

Yeah, I'd read that section as well as 12.12, about charging, but I'm not sure that I understand how things are supposed to work.

For instance, in the first situation, I guess that the ZoC for diagonal squares is only for the one square touching it diagonally? But then why couldn't I have charged the left cav unit by entering the square to my direct front? Same question in Situation 2, why couldn't I charge the unit by entering the square to my right front? In situation 3, why couldn't the bottom cav unit charge the top enemy unit in the red box?

And what's going on in Situation 4? I don't think that either unit is in an enemy ZoC...

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:42 pm

It looks you are sometimes trying to move your cavalry a square and then charge so you get 'charged' (pun both intended & not) action points for both the movement and the heavy cost of multiple enemy ZOCs.

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:44 pm

76mm wrote:Yeah, I'd read that section as well as 12.12, about charging, but I'm not sure that I understand how things are supposed to work.

For instance, in the first situation, I guess that the ZoC for diagonal squares is only for the one square touching it diagonally? But then why couldn't I have charged the left cav unit by entering the square to my direct front?
In this example, you in fact could, by moving into the square to your front and only then selecting charge. The charge order has to pick a route to test - you can see the route by the dot in the middle of the intermediate square(s). But sometimes there is an alternative route that will also work if you do it square by square instead of all in one go. (But it won't work if it involves two 45 degree turns).
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:45 pm

GiveWarAchance wrote:It looks you are sometimes trying to move your cavalry a square and then charge so you get 'charged' (pun both intended & not) action points for both the movement and the heavy cost of multiple enemy ZOCs.
Not sure that I follow...none of my units in any of the situations above have moved at all as of the time of the screen shot?

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:47 pm

76mm wrote:Same question in Situation 2, why couldn't I charge the unit by entering the square to my right front?
That would involve two 45 degree turns, which is not permitted in a charge.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:49 pm

76mm wrote:In situation 3, why couldn't the bottom cav unit charge the top enemy unit in the red box?
As far as I can see it should be able to.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:52 pm

76mm wrote:And what's going on in Situation 4? I don't think that either unit is in an enemy ZoC...
In the first example, the unit has "No CC" which means you can't issue it orders at all. I suspect it has already been involved in a close combat this turn.

In the second exmaple, your unit is Pursuing, and hence cannot be given orders.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:52 pm

76mm wrote:
GiveWarAchance wrote:It looks you are sometimes trying to move your cavalry a square and then charge so you get 'charged' (pun both intended & not) action points for both the movement and the heavy cost of multiple enemy ZOCs.
Not sure that I follow...none of my units in any of the situations above have moved at all as of the time of the screen shot?
You are trying to move a square and turn before charging in two of your photos so all that depletes your action points plus the ZOC effect on top of that. Your horses will feel like they are swimming through cold molasses with all that.
Last edited by GiveWarAchance on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:53 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:In this example, you in fact could, by moving into the square to your front and only then selecting charge. The charge order has to pick a route to test - you can see the route by the dot in the middle of the intermediate square(s). But sometimes there is an alternative route that will also work if you do it square by square instead of all in one go. (But it won't work if it involves two 45 degree turns).
OK, I guess same answer in Situation 2? But in Situation 2, it looks like there are no dots to indicate the route?

But generally I understand that you're saying that the "charge test" only checks one route and that we should check others manually before assuming that no charge is in fact possible.

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:55 pm

rbodleyscott wrote: That would involve two 45 degree turns, which is not permitted in a charge.
Sorry if I'm being dense, but I don't understand why there are 2 45 degree turns; it looks like I'd make one 45 degree turn, but the other move would be straight ahead?

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:55 pm

76mm wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:In this example, you in fact could, by moving into the square to your front and only then selecting charge. The charge order has to pick a route to test - you can see the route by the dot in the middle of the intermediate square(s). But sometimes there is an alternative route that will also work if you do it square by square instead of all in one go. (But it won't work if it involves two 45 degree turns).
OK, I guess same answer in Situation 2? But in Situation 2, it looks like there are no dots to indicate the route?
Your mouse is not over the target unit.

In situation 2 you would not be able to move to the yellow square first and then charge, because the first move would would involve a 45 degree turn, and you are not allowed to turn 45 degrees a second time to charge.
But generally I understand that you're saying that the "charge test" only checks one route and that we should check others manually before assuming that no charge is in fact possible.
Correct.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:59 pm

rbodleyscott wrote: In the first example, the unit has "No CC" which means you can't issue it orders at all. I suspect it has already been involved in a close combat this turn.
It definitely had not been involved in close combat during my turn, although it might have been involved in the enemy's last turn--but would that matter? And how did it end up with 20/16 AP?

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:02 pm

76mm wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote: In the first example, the unit has "No CC" which means you can't issue it orders at all. I suspect it has already been involved in a close combat this turn.
It definitely had not been involved in close combat during my turn, although it might have been involved in the enemy's last turn--but would that matter? And how did it end up with 20/16 AP?
By being tested to pursue and getting a random +- 4 AP - in this case 4. As to why it didn't actually pursue I can't say, perhaps another unit was in the way. It cannot be moved this turn.

Note that unresolved melees are actually resolved at the start of the other player's turn, not at the end of your turn. The AI doesn't actually choose to resolve any ongoing melees individually in its turn, but just lets the automatic resolution resolve them. The player can choose to resolve ongoing melees during his turn, or let them resolve automatically at the start of the AI's turn.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:04 pm

76mm wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote: That would involve two 45 degree turns, which is not permitted in a charge.
Sorry if I'm being dense, but I don't understand why there are 2 45 degree turns; it looks like I'd make one 45 degree turn, but the other move would be straight ahead?
You have to turn 45 degrees to reach the first non-ZOCed square, and then you will be facing up the map, so you will need another 45 degree turn to charge.
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:08 pm

rbodleyscott wrote: You have to turn 45 degrees to reach the first non-ZOCed square, and then you will be facing up the map, so you will need another 45 degree turn to charge.
Now I get it, I guess it is going to take me a little while to get used to playing with squares rather than hexes...

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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:10 pm

76mm wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote: You have to turn 45 degrees to reach the first non-ZOCed square, and then you will be facing up the map, so you will need another 45 degree turn to charge.
Now I get it, I guess it is going to take me a little while to get used to playing with squares rather than hexes...
Usually you can safely test out the alternative route and then Undo it if it proves not to allow the charge. (The exception would be if there are hidden enemy units that are revealed by the first move, in which case you won't be able to Undo it).
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Re: Questions about Game Mechanics

Post by 76mm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:13 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:Note that unresolved melees are actually resolved at the start of the other player's turn, not at the end of your turn. The AI doesn't actually choose to resolve any melees individually in its turn, but just lets the automatic resolution resolve them. The play can choose to resolve them during his turn, or let them resolve automatically at the start of the AI's turn.
Sorry, just trying to understand the implications of this...so if one of my units is in melee with an enemy unit, and the enemy units breaks and moves away during the enemy's turn (actually my turn because of how AI melees are resolved), then my unit can't move during my turn? Is that true for all melees, or only if my units was supposed to have pursued?

Sorry for all of the detailed questions, just trying to get my head around this stuff.

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