Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
Daniele
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Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by Daniele » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:33 am

As many of you surely know, we have recently launched two separate tournament sessions for Field of Glory II. The enthusiasm the community joined both of them caught us by surprise (a very happy surprise) and we received from the very beginning many suggestions on how to improve the system.

This is the reason for this thread, to give you a place where discuss what works and what not currently, ideal situations and suggestions for the future.

Every contribution is important so don’t be shy and share your thoughts!

See you on the battlefield!

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by stockwellpete » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:51 am

For tournaments with 32 players you need to have 5 rounds of matches for the Swiss system to work properly; for 64 players you need 6 rounds.

Players who resign a game should score zero points, the "winner" of that game should get 85 points.

Timed-out games should be scored 75-0 if they have not started and 85-0 if they have (effectively treating them like a resigned game).

Games that have not started after three days should trigger a reminder PM to each player.
Last edited by stockwellpete on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by stockwellpete » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:57 am

Would it be possible to build an automated knock out tournament capable of coping with 64 players minimum? It would also have to be able to cope with an awkward number of entries, say 77, which would involve 13 first round matches and 51 byes giving 64 qualifiers for the second round. Possibly you could run such a KO tournament twice a year and it would add to the variety of formats that could be offered.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by AlessandroD » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:18 am

+1 for all the previous points especially for increasing the swiss rounds.

Also would be nice to create a ranking system (like ELO) :D

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by eddieballgame » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:28 pm

New to this form of competition, per FOG II. My question is; do wins take preference over "points" & the "points", only, come into play for tie-breaker purposes? I ask, because the method suggested for scoring non-played games offers a goodly sum. This makes the potential for "fixed" games a viable issue. Grant it, there are numerous ways to "fix" the results & I don't mean to imply that this community has those types of players. A "fixed" played game would, at least, have a record & could be judged accordingly. The aggrieved should be compensated, how much is my question.
I apologize if my post comes off as a negative per the proposed scoring system. I am also aware there is no perfect way to do deal with this sort of...potential behavior. Just thought I would add to the conversation.
Last edited by eddieballgame on Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:37 pm

eddieballgame wrote:do wins take preference over "points"
Not exactly, but wins give +60 points.
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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by mkjhartmann » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:18 pm

As previously suggested only allow once active tournament per userID. Allows more people to play and will cut down on number of unfinished games, since if a single user is unable to play he will default on games in multiple tournaments.

Mike

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by AlessandroD » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:41 pm

mkjhartmann wrote:As previously suggested only allow once active tournament per userID. Allows more people to play and will cut down on number of unfinished games, since if a single user is unable to play he will default on games in multiple tournaments.

Mike
Sorry but I disagree, it is enough to increase the number of players and everyone will be happy.

If the problem are the players that don't finish a game, a solution can be keep track of them and after two unfinished games (without good reasons) they cannot join other tournament for a while.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 am

Disable flank marches for Side B in tournament matches.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:14 pm

AlessandroD wrote:Also would be nice to create a ranking system (like ELO) :D
Yes, a ranking system would be good in its own right(although not everyone likes to be ranked) and it would solve what might be a bit of a problem with the first round matches of the automated tournament at the moment inasmuch as there seem to be quite a lot of uneven matches (experienced players v inexperienced players). A rating system could be used to reduce the number of these "miss-matches" with players playing somebody next to them in the ratings table. The only unknown quantities then would be the completely new players and they could be grouped together in the first round. all this would mean integrating the rating system into the automated tournament system, which might be a bit easier to say than to program.

The FOG2DL, when it starts next February, will have a ratings system of its own in due course and that will be available to the organisers of the automated tournament. This is what it looked like in FOG1 . . .

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 47&t=49723

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:14 pm

stockwellpete wrote:Yes, a ranking system would be good in its own right(although not everyone likes to be ranked) and it would solve what might be a bit of a problem with the first round matches of the automated tournament at the moment inasmuch as there seem to be quite a lot of uneven matches (experienced players v inexperienced players). A rating system could be used to reduce the number of these "miss-matches" with players playing somebody next to them in the ratings table. The only unknown quantities then would be the completely new players and they could be grouped together in the first round. all this would mean integrating the rating system into the automated tournament system, which might be a bit easier to say than to program.

The FOG2DL, when it starts next February, will have a ratings system of its own in due course and that will be available to the organisers of the automated tournament. This is what it looked like in FOG1 . . .

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 47&t=49723
I was thinking about this a bit more this evening. If you had, say, ratings for 100 players at any one time and 52 of them entered an automated tournament (with 12 new players making 64), you could divide the 52 players into two pools of 26 based on the ratings and draw the first round matches from these two pools. In that way you wouldn't get such a disparity in skill levels in the first round of the tournament and this would reduce the number of matches that don't even get started. We did find in FOG1 that a few players would "bail out" of a tournament at the start if they received a really tough draw or group.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by eddieballgame » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:45 am

Something to consider per a ranking system for this type of game is a Grand Prix format. I am not so sure that an ELO type rating system fits for this particular competition.
Chess ratings, for example start with a number of games that are "provisional" before they become "established". It works for a game like Chess because of a huge number of folks that compete & the large number of tournaments one has access to. This includes, not only OTB, but on-line games. In time, it just works. One "problem" that can come up, per Chess tournaments, some folks will not enter certain events if the "field" is much lower rated then he or she is...to "protect" their hard earned rating.

My thoughts along the lines of a Grand Prix type system is to award only positive points per an event. The amount of points can be rewarded based on the number of participants. A larger tournament could offer more points for more places, as an example.
This type of system could also color-code the points based on the "stature" of said event. This is what Duplicate Bridge Tournaments use to force players to play in different types of events to get those allusive gold, silver, & red points. One joke amongst Bridge players is if one lives long enough & plays in enough events ( hires a pro for a partner )...he or she can become a Life Master. :)

A Grand Prix type format can be a yearly thing where someone can be crowned that year's point winner. This GP format would also encourage activity as the "best" players may not be the most active, thus paving the way for a good or average player to win by being more active. Anyways, this is just a thought I would share.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by rexhurley » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:21 pm

If 64 players is too much to handle or say 32 players fill up fast (like the second one) could we immediately post say another tourney beside it so the rest of us can play as well, albeit in a different draw.

Are organisers of other events, such as Stockwellpete able to use the automated scoring system used by Slitherine? as I can see it will help a lot with the bookwork which I found to be really time consuming when running some events in Pike and Shot.

After time perhaps when peoples levels are developed you could play a round robin type event with three rounds followed by two rounds of elimination like in Badminton and Tennis Tournaments.

Just ideas as I think its pretty good the way it already is to 8-)

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by Strategiusz » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:34 pm

My suggestion is to make special separate tournaments for different time zones. Just as an information for players, but technically every player can join to any tournament if they think they can manage this. This could allow to have more rounds and less days for each round.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by Captaii » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:58 pm

Strategiusz wrote:My suggestion is to make special separate tournaments for different time zones. Just as an information for players, but technically every player can join to any tournament if they think they can manage this. This could allow to have more rounds and less days for each round.
Or increase round time to 15 days.
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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by Igorputski » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:52 am

Have winners of the 1st tournament and 2nd tournament play each other for the grand prize

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by hjc » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:58 am

Strategiusz wrote:My suggestion is to make special separate tournaments for different time zones.
This is what has held me back from entering a tournament so far - knowing that the time of day I can play means that, at best, an opponent and I could only complete one turn each per day, unless their available time matches up with mine. I figure it wouldn't be fair on the majority of entrants if they draw someone who is either asleep or at work when they're ready for their turn.

Perhaps an idea for tournaments is to classify them by the time-slots entrants are available - UCT 0800 - 1200 for example.

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by NikiforosFokas » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:08 pm

First of all sorry for my terrible english once again (too lazy to check them).
I have now finished almost 4 tourney rounds and here are my 5 cents:

The biggest problem concerning me is the time out rules. From the 4 paired matches i have played only two i think there were fair. Why? In one case i "stole" (not in purpose, everyone knew me from FoG1 knows i do not have any problem that i am a bad player) at least 60 points from the player edb1815. There is another case with a specific player (do not want to name him) that from one point he played only the match that it was obvious he will win but not the other one that i was going to win. I play just for fun and i dont miss the 60 points and while i understand that he may did it in purpose i played normally my turn in the game which he won. But other players are interesting to win a tourney so this matter a lot. My suggestion is the following: Lets say Edb win NikiforosFokas with 30-11 and the game ends up because Nikiforos timed up. Edb has to, at least to my opinion, to win 60+19+a specific prefix number which goes as punishment for Nikiforos - lets say- 20= 99 points. That way Nikiforos will not spoil the fun for Edb. I think i sound reasonable.
I understand that this may sound harsh for the time out player, but hey it is a tourney that when you enter you a priori aggre to follow the rules about the time limit.
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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by Igorputski » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:05 pm

AlessandroD wrote:
mkjhartmann wrote:As previously suggested only allow once active tournament per userID. Allows more people to play and will cut down on number of unfinished games, since if a single user is unable to play he will default on games in multiple tournaments.

Mike
Sorry but I disagree, it is enough to increase the number of players and everyone will be happy.

If the problem are the players that don't finish a game, a solution can be keep track of them and after two unfinished games (without good reasons) they cannot join other tournament for a while.
Sorry, but I disagree with you. Players already in tournaments should be on the next tournament list last and only input if there aren't enough new players for that tournament.
Only fair to those who haven't had a chance yet. 8)

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Re: Field of Glory II Tournament Suggestions

Post by FroBodine » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:51 pm

Have the 10 day tournaments always start on a Friday. This will give a full two weekends for each round. Weekends are for the most part the best chance to get in multiple turns a day, especially with opponents in vastly different timezones.

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