nikgaukroger wrote:76mm wrote:Jishmael wrote:
So I guess you're just having horrendous RNG?
Perhaps, but at this point it is increasingly difficult for me to believe that I'm just having a run of "bad luck". I started paying more attention to this issue about twenty MP games ago, and since then don't recall having a single battle where there were not 2-3 double-breaks (on my side) at a minimum (and again, I'm not talking about units which have hit in the flank), and often more. I really wonder why you are not seeing more, presumably some mix of armies that you play and play style/tactics?
Given the number of games you have no doubt now played I'd agree that it is very unlikely to just be a run of poor dice. I suspect there is something about the games you play, quite possibly something in your tactics, that is increasing your troops vulnerability to double-drops - something you have not (yet) recognised/worked out and so have not communicated to us. Certainly, to take an example, what you have said about combats with pike phalanxes is pretty much the opposite of my experience with them (hardly ever seen them double-drop unless in a very poor position indeed).
I was mainly trying to make the point that its possible, if entirely unprobable, that every single combat is lost badly in a row and causes a double break every time.
Thats just how dice work, and as far as I'm aware FOG II is not weighting its RNG.
As I mentioned earlier, I had to redo a specific battle 7 times to the point where I was starting to doubt my sanity, but in that case it wasnt my tactics, it was just rotten luck, as noone else could reproduce these harsh results.
Now to the matter at hand.
First off to my tactics and armie choices, I do play quite the mix of armies, though I havent spend that much time with macedonians or seleucids. I've spent a lot of time with indians (cause I like them) and Persians, and with hoplite based armies cause even though some of my post suggest a deep hatred for those, I'm still trying to figure them out.
I see quite the number of double drops when my indians finally get charged (which makes sense looking at all the negative modifiers that get piled onto bowmen) and with hoplites as well, especially when confronted with impact foot of any type. But that is WAD considering the bad melee chances and the CT modifiers.
I don't see it (regularly, there have been outliers of course) in "even" or beneficial situations, which in my mind is combats that are 10% loss chance or less.
So I assume you're using Sarissa style Pike Phalanxes?
The fact that you regularly incur bad losses wih these at loss chances of around 5% honestly leaves me a bit baffled and makes me want to go "bad die rolls!" again.
The laws of probability speak against this, unless theres something at work that we're not seeing.
The odds are calculated by the engine simulating a 1000 combats in the matchup, a loss chance of 5 percent means that 50 of those have been lost, which leaves around 5 or 10 of those to be lost badly (this is all guesswork)
That makes it improbabale, but again not impossible, that these occur all after the other...
I don't want to beat the rng horse, I just see any other explanation if your loss chances in these situations are consistent around 5% and your consistently loosing combats.
Cause thats something that I just don't see happening in my games, my phalanxes double drop when disordered and beaten, not when steady and on open ground, because I they just don't loose those combats normally.
What the probabilities and the rules do enforce is them double dropping a lot as soon as they fulfill the condition (having lost badly).
The CT modifiers for a sarissa phalanx do not differ from that of a normal hoplite unit, which, especially against anything impact, is very prone to double breaks as calculated earlier.
So the question is, what exact units are involved? is everyone steady and at full strength? is there terrain disordering your phalanx? what are your generals doing?
I'm assuming a "threatened flank" is being in the ZOC of a unit thats facing either flank or back. though I'd definetely like some clarification on this and if its a cumulative modifier or only counts once.
edit: I'm not gonna argue pushback here. Theres a seperate thread for that.