Strange start corridor

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
Gwaylare
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:17 am

Strange start corridor

Post by Gwaylare » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:45 pm

Hi alltogether

I wonder about a strange setup in my latest tournament game. In the screenshot I have marked my setup corridor in blue. The expected corridor for my opponent is marked in blue. In any games I had so far, the corridors were symmetric.
But this time my opponent was able to deploy a lot of units outside the initial corridor. And this are not light units.

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks for help
Gwaylare
Attachments
Start.jpg
Start.jpg (740.65 KiB) Viewed 1853 times

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22346
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:18 am

The deployment areas are set according to the initial deployment of the force after Autodeploy. This effectively means that the larger army will have a larger deployment area.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

Gwaylare
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:17 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Gwaylare » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:47 pm

Because I did not beleave this at all, I did a test. No I see the problem.

What you said is just true, if you look at this superficially. Here is what I feel is the implementation and the real problem.

1) The size of deployment area grows depending on the of your army, if and only if you use the Autodeploy function. Without Autodeploy you will never get this benefit and I never used Autodeploy up to now.
2) The size of deployment area does not depend on the size of your real army, just of the army when using Autodeploy. You can reduce your army after this. So size of deployment area is a constant of an army, if you know how to get it. If you do not know, you have to live with a reduced deployment area.

To give an impression here two screenshots from my recent test. The difference is significant:


To be honest, this is a **** implementation, not worthy for a competitive multiplayer game FOG II is. It is absolut ridiculous to have an automatic function, which can not be triggert manually. Strategists do not use automatic functions and you should not force them to.

Please fix this.

Best regards
Gwaylare
Attachments
WithAutoDeployment.jpg
WithAutoDeployment.jpg (276.28 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

Gwaylare
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:17 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Gwaylare » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:48 pm

Manual Depoyment
Attachments
ManualDeployment.jpg
ManualDeployment.jpg (249.48 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

pipfromslitherine
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8979
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:35 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by pipfromslitherine » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:34 pm

Please watch your language on the forums.

Cheers

Pip
follow me on Twitter here

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22346
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:43 pm

We will look into it.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

Gwaylare
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:17 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Gwaylare » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm

Thanks Richard and sorry for bad language.

Spectre195
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Spectre195 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:00 am

Hey Richard,

In general is it an easy ask for a more specific option for deployment zone size when creating the game? I am always torn about whether or not I like the limited deployment size. While sometimes its nice as it forces you to place your armies in interesting ways, other times it can unfunly obnoxious. Also sometimes the most interesting parts of the map are on the edges and those rarely see play in my experience. My two cents is that would be a neat thing to add the bucket list.

jomni
Sengoku Jidai
Sengoku Jidai
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by jomni » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:06 am

But it becomes unrealistic and gamey when units bunch up in one corner just to exploit some terrain. An army’s flank shouldn’t be the map edge. It works like a fake impassable terrain. If one does that, the map needs to be extended more to give space at the army’s flanks.

Spectre195
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Spectre195 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:06 am

jomni wrote:But it becomes unrealistic and gamey when units bunch up in one corner just to exploit some terrain. An army’s flank shouldn’t be the map edge. It works like a fake impassable terrain. If one does that, the map needs to be extended more to give space at the army’s flanks.
I disagree with some of that. Not being able to pick your deployment zone can be just as gamey. Half of a battle was the commanders picking the right location to actually fight, battles were sometimes decided before the battle even began because of it. If the better terrain for you was on the side of the map you would have put your forces there. Also the current system will put you on unflankable deployment zones already due to sea or impassable stream, so that isn't really a new occurrence. Also why I said add it in as an option opposed to making it a default.

jomni
Sengoku Jidai
Sengoku Jidai
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by jomni » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:22 am

As you said, battles are decided even before the fight if one commander gets the better terrain. Therefore there is no point in playing out the battle. So battles in the game assume no one has the perfect start position and both commanders are willing to fight.

Not all edges are impassable. So in that case, both flanks in all maps should now have a mountain or water based on your suggestion. ;)

Spectre195
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Spectre195 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:39 pm

jomni wrote:As you said, battles are decided even before the fight if one commander gets the better terrain. Therefore there is no point in playing out the battle. So battles in the game assume no one has the perfect start position and both commanders are willing to fight.

Not all edges are impassable. So in that case, both flanks in all maps should now have a mountain or water based on your suggestion. ;)
Sure and that happens in this game already, so I don't see your point? I have loaded plenty of games where I just looked at the map and realized unless I played near perfect and my opponent messed up that I had little chance of winning. That's the beauty and danger of random terrain, sometimes RNGJesus blesses your opponent and not you.

I don't know why they would need to be? I mean look at the example that this very thread is about! The deployment zone is along the sea which is now effectively the map edge, so as I said the notion that people might deploy along the edge of the map to deny flanks is already a thing in the game effectively, thus not really a good argument against the suggestion.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22346
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:01 pm

Spectre195 wrote:I don't know why they would need to be? I mean look at the example that this very thread is about! The deployment zone is along the sea which is now effectively the map edge, so as I said the notion that people might deploy along the edge of the map to deny flanks is already a thing in the game effectively, thus not really a good argument against the suggestion.
Coasts and flanking rivers are there primarily for the purpose of supplying a secure flank in some maps, because some historical battlefields were like that. Not all battlefields should have available secured flanks.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

Spectre195
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Spectre195 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:15 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Spectre195 wrote:I don't know why they would need to be? I mean look at the example that this very thread is about! The deployment zone is along the sea which is now effectively the map edge, so as I said the notion that people might deploy along the edge of the map to deny flanks is already a thing in the game effectively, thus not really a good argument against the suggestion.
Coasts and flanking rivers are there primarily for the purpose of supplying a secure flank in some maps, because some historical battlefields were like that. Not all battlefields should have available secured flanks.
Yes I understand it is currently only some maps; however my point was that would not be a novel occurrence as it is already a possibility in the game as well as adding an option for larger deployment doesn't necessarily mean the entire side of the field.

jomni
Sengoku Jidai
Sengoku Jidai
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by jomni » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:04 pm

Spectre195 wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:
Spectre195 wrote:I don't know why they would need to be? I mean look at the example that this very thread is about! The deployment zone is along the sea which is now effectively the map edge, so as I said the notion that people might deploy along the edge of the map to deny flanks is already a thing in the game effectively, thus not really a good argument against the suggestion.
Coasts and flanking rivers are there primarily for the purpose of supplying a secure flank in some maps, because some historical battlefields were like that. Not all battlefields should have available secured flanks.
Yes I understand it is currently only some maps; however my point was that would not be a novel occurrence as it is already a possibility in the game as well as adding an option for larger deployment doesn't necessarily mean the entire side of the field.
I know where you're getting at. One way to implement this is for players to choose (the currently existing) "Wide" and "Very Wide" map options when setting up. Then the deployment area will be wider than standard despite the same army size but not up to the edge. I assume Wide and Very Wide map currently does not affect the deployment area like army size.

Richard, what do you think about this suggestion?

klayeckles
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:47 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by klayeckles » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:54 pm

Gwaylare wrote:Because I did not beleave this at all, I did a test. No I see the problem.

What you said is just true, if you look at this superficially. Here is what I feel is the implementation and the real problem.

1) The size of deployment area grows depending on the of your army, if and only if you use the Autodeploy function. Without Autodeploy you will never get this benefit and I never used Autodeploy up to now.
2) The size of deployment area does not depend on the size of your real army, just of the army when using Autodeploy. You can reduce your army after this. So size of deployment area is a constant of an army, if you know how to get it. If you do not know, you have to live with a reduced deployment area.

To give an impression here two screenshots from my recent test. The difference is significant:


To be honest, this is a **** implementation, not worthy for a competitive multiplayer game FOG II is. It is absolut ridiculous to have an automatic function, which can not be triggert manually. Strategists do not use automatic functions and you should not force them to.

Please fix this.

Best regards
Gwaylare
i'm strugggling t see the difficulty...
just hit autodeploy, then feel free to reorg your army as you see fit...it saves a bunch of time anyway. the auto deploy doesn't restrict you from deploying them anyway you want.

Ludendorf
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 519
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Ludendorf » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:38 pm

To be fair, this does actually seem like a real balance issue. People who know how to game autodeploy will have a positioning advantage over people who don't.

Gwaylare
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:17 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Gwaylare » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:15 pm

Thanks Ludendorf, that is exactly the problem. It is an undocumented trick.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22346
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:56 pm

As I say, we will look into into and sort the issue out in a future update after testing. We agree that it should be corrected. The issue hasn't really come to light before because most people use autodeploy, not as a trick to gain an advantage but simply because it is easier.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

Gwaylare
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Panzer Corps Tournament 3rd Place
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:17 am

Re: Strange start corridor

Post by Gwaylare » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:10 pm

Thanks Richard

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory II”