issues.... also mod for...

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
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tallestdavid
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issues.... also mod for...

Post by tallestdavid » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:28 am

increasing all unit availability? I hate having so much points (when 2000) yet there's never enough units :( so be cool to use only units I want when I have enough money for it.

also game is being updated still right?
light troops are destroying my heavy cav!! medium Spears are getting destroyed by light horse archers.. is this the norm? I'm vetern total war player so I'm use to like Spears being horses and flanking destroying morale (flanking don't really affect units here)
also why can't I shoot units on the back while they are in combat? I'm trying very hard to understand the game since it features many eras.
hate that the original game only has boring time eras... :P DLC is what makes the game cooler T___T expensive for use poor lads.

MVP7
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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by MVP7 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:26 am

tallestdavid wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:28 am
increasing all unit availability? I hate having so much points (when 2000) yet there's never enough units :( so be cool to use only units I want when I have enough money for it.

also game is being updated still right?
light troops are destroying my heavy cav!! medium Spears are getting destroyed by light horse archers.. is this the norm? I'm vetern total war player so I'm use to like Spears being horses and flanking destroying morale (flanking don't really affect units here)
also why can't I shoot units on the back while they are in combat? I'm trying very hard to understand the game since it features many eras.
hate that the original game only has boring time eras... :P DLC is what makes the game cooler T___T expensive for use poor lads.
Increasing the unit availability across the board by modding shouldn't bee too hard although it would kind of defeat the purpose of having different army lists.

Unlike Total War, terrain plays extremely important role in the performance and interaction of units in FoG2. If your heavy cavalry was being destroyed by light infantry you were probably either moving or attacking into forest of difficult slope, where cavalry will get extreme penalties to its cohesion while light infantry will get no terrain penalties. When used in somewhat sensible manner light infantry doesn't stand a chance against cavalry.

If your medium spearmen were defeated by light horse archers they were probably in the open, disturbed or fragmented, possibly engaged in combat with another unit and flanked or rear charged by the light horse archers (they won't engage in melee unless odds are hugely in their favor). Similarly flanking is by far the most important and effective mechanic in the game and you simply don't know how it works and what counts as flank charge if you suggest it's not affecting units.

I would recommend watching MikeC's tutorial video series ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skddq2j1d8o ) and maybe reading the manual. These should explain the "issues" you perceive and give you solid understanding of the mechanics of the game. Have fun!

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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by SpeedyCM » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:43 am

Definitely watch MikeC's videos they are excellent.

As for flank charges as MVP7 says they are extremely effective as in most cases they will cause an instant drop to morale state on the target even before combat. There are however a few things to note here, the charging unit must start the turn on the targets flank already, to be considered a flank it must be at least 90 degrees from the targets front facing, also infantry units conducting a flank charge on cavalry will not inflict the pre-combat morale drop although they still get the flank combat bonus on the initial combat.

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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by Ludendorf » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:03 pm

Light infantry in this game are a critical component of your armies and essential for controlling the battlefield. You want to use light infantry less for causing outright damage to your opponent (though if concentrated, they can certainly do plenty of that!) and more to force your opponent to move or do something he or she does not want to do. Much like in Total War, skirmishers are how you force an enemy army to attack when they want to defend, defend when they want to attack (by hovering around the flanks and flanking them as they advance across rough ground or right by your light cavalry, forcing them to constantly consider the threat from your skirmishers) and get strung out trying to chase you around the field. Learning how to use them properly can give you a massive advantage in play.

One of the classic uses of light infantry is to throw them out as a screen in front of your infantry line, beat the other side's skirmishers, and then toss things at the enemy's line until they are forced to move after the skirmishers, with your own heavy infantry right behind. More often than not, a clumsy pursuit of your skirmishers will pull some of the enemy's infantry out of formation, exposing them to pinning and flanking manoeuvres.

Also, light infantry CAN decimate cavalry... if they are used carefully. Groups of slingers and archers can stay one square away from heavy cavalry, a range they will likely be able to escape from if the cavalry charge, and bombard the cavalry with missiles, shredding through the limited numbers of the cavalry. Javelinmen can do the same, but they have to come in from the side or have the cavalry get ZOC'd by a heavy unit; this is much harder to do, but can be devastating if it works out. If you can force cavalry to force rough terrain, forest, or marsh, that can be an excellent time for the javelins to get to work.

Finally, light infantry can attack on rough ground. They don't like it even against severely disrupted heavy units, and will die quickly if they try it against mediums, but in the right circumstances, a unit of lights that attacks a unit of medium or heavy infantry and holds it in place can set that pinned unit up for a flank by much more dangerous units, or stop it from getting somewhere it desperately needs to go.

Light cavalry, meanwhile, can attack at will, and if they strike the sides of enemy cavalry, can force it to stop and turn at will, either delaying it or setting it up for flank attacks by cavalry or pinning attacks by cooperating groups of infantry. (Attack a unit of cavalry with two units of infantry at 90 degree angles to one another and the cavalry can no longer escape.) If you can lock them in by placing another unit behind the light cavalry so they can't pull out after they charge, the light cavalry can even do this to infantry, including invaluable units of heavy pike!

The solution to avoiding all of these situations is to bring skirmishers of your own and win the skirmish battle, or at least keep the enemy skirmishers busy until your superior heavy and medium elements have got the job done. That, and infantry and cavalry can sometimes catch the skirmishers if they get too far ahead of the rest of the army. Most experienced players keep their skirmishers close to their line, but sometimes certain strategies will call for them ranging far out ahead of the army to harass. If you are outnumbered in skirmishers but the opponent isn't keeping their heavy units close, you can use your limited skirmishers to lock down enemy skirmishers in melee and then bring up your heavy troops to utterly destroy them. Just watch out for the enemy's main line moving up as you do this!

Skirmishers rarely win a battle on their own, but they absolutely can be the deciding element which creates the conditions that win the battle. There's a reason I don't like having skirmisher inferiority, and that's because they really can change the dynamic on the field.

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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by TimDee58 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:15 pm

@Ludendorf

THAT was a brilliant instructive description of the tactical nuances that you (and I'm sure many others) use, thank you... it'll certainly influence my style of play.

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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by MVP7 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:32 pm

Very good tips for light infantry/cavalry use even if the OP was just questioning why light units were beating his heavies and mediums in melee :)

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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by Ludendorf » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:46 pm

MVP7 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:32 pm
Very good tips for light infantry/cavalry use even if the OP was just questioning why light units were beating his heavies and mediums in melee :)
Thanks. I figured he might be losing a lot of cavalry to light infantry fire as opposed to flat out losing in melee. You do have to be a bit unlucky for cavalry to outright lose in melee against light infantry on rough ground. The light infantry get an impact bonus, and if the cav then fragment they're in trouble. However, usually the heavy cavalry will stand firm and then go on to win decisively in that situation. I would still say that engaging light infantry on rough ground with cavalry can still be a bad idea in many situations as you generally want those troops to be moving around to do other things, and pinning them down fighting lights is not an ideal use of your key mobile units. Also, the cavalry will often pursue for a while, sometimes into bad positions. If you're certain the cavalry won't get lured into trouble they can't get out of, and you have the luxury of time, it can be worth smoking the odd unit of careless javelinmen.

What's never a good idea is engaging light infantry on mountains or in marshes with cavalry. The light infantry will hold on for a long time, they may even beat the cavalry, and if the enemy's cavalry or infantry catch the severely disordered cavalry in that state, the beleaguered cavalry are as good as finished. Never engage skirmishers with cavalry in marsh unless there is a clear road to victory that way (you can hit the skirmishers with flank attacks and crash through) and you have literally no other option. Even then, make sure there isn't a faster and less dangerous road to victory by simply avoiding the swamp or exploiting an infantry break in the centre.

As for light cavalry hitting spears in the flank... you have to be unlucky, but it can certainly happen. Light javelin cav and nomadic horse archers are more than capable of scoring a victory against a heavy or medium unit attacked on open ground, and where there is defeat, there are disruptions or even fragmentations. You need to guard your flanks against light cavalry and keep your soldiers off the rough ground if you don't want units of light horse slamming into the back of them. Sometimes, you can get away with it; other times, you'll get a key unit disrupted and lose the fight as a result. The more unreliable the infantry, the more closely you need to guard them.

Also, guard your massed archers with your life against light cavalry. Those guys can get hit pretty hard even if they're hit from the front by javelin cavalry, let alone the more dangerous light lancers like prodromoi.

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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by MVP7 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:12 pm

Well said but what tallestdavid needs to do before worrying about finer tactical nuances of the game is to learn how different terrains work in FoG2, how different unit types and weapons types work with terrain and each other and how mechanics like flanking and cohesion work in the FoG2.

Currently he's trying to apply the Total War dynamic of terrain being mainly visual effect apart from height and sword-beats-spear-beats-horse-beats-sword logic and asking for balance fixes when it doesn't work quite like that in FoG2.

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Re: issues.... also mod for...

Post by mst007 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:13 pm

Ludendorf, brilliant description of light infantry tactical options, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. "Controlling the battlefield" when used well is a very incisive description of superior use of your light component. Kudos.

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