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Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:33 pm
by Mirek69
Which army FoG 2 contains units Silver Shields ?

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:14 pm
by Ludendorf
I think you want the TT mod for that. 'Silver shields' in the base game are represented as veteran pike phalanx units. (They do have silver shields though, which I'm guessing is a nod to the historical silver shields.)

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:45 pm
by MVP7
Late Seleucid lists (starting 166BC) have Romanized Argyraspids but there's no dedicated classic silver shields in the game.

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:55 am
by rbodleyscott
MVP7 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:45 pm
Late Seleucid lists (starting 166BC) have Romanized Argyraspids but there's no dedicated classic silver shields in the game.
There are, but they are call "Veteran Pikemen".

Note that although it is controversial whether the hypaspists in Philip and Alexander's (early) army were hoplites or pikemen (we take the latter view), it is much less controversial that they eventually became pikemen by the end of Alexander's campaigns. Certainly there is no evidence that the Silver Shields in the Seleucid army were anything other than pikemen (until some were converted to imitation legionaries at some point prior to the review at Daphne in 166 BC).

Seleucid pikemen were divided into Argyraspidae (Silver Shields), Chalcaspidae (Bronze Shields) and Leukaspidae (White Shields). We therefore use these as the models for Superior, Average and Raw pikemen respectively.

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:37 am
by Mirek69
Can they be distinguished as "Argyraspidae" in the next patch ?

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:40 am
by rbodleyscott
Mirek69 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:37 am
Can they be distinguished as "Argyraspidae" in the next patch ?
Not by changing the name of the current "Veteran Pikemen" unit, because some states had different names for their best pikemen units. For example, confusingly, the Antigonid Macedonian kingdom called them "Peltasts".

We could add a duplicate unit to the Squads file so they could have a different name in the Seleucid army, but the maximum number of units in the squads file is finite, and this might not be a worthwhile use of a space.

When all is said and done, the Argyraspids were high quality pikemen with silver shields, and that is exactly how they are represented in the game.

They are by no means the only unit type in the game that was known by different names in different armies or at different times, despite being functionally identical. In order to produce a game covering such a wide historical and geographical range, we were obliged to keep the number of different models and textures down to a reasonable number, otherwise the game could not have got produced at all. We could not give every known historical unit its own individual name (and texture) - e.g. all the hundreds of individually named Late Roman units for which the Notitia Dignitatum gives names and shield patterns.

If you are using them in a campaign, or developing a user scenario, the game allows you to rename them as Argyraspidae if you wish, as we have done in the Magnesia Epic Battle scenario.

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:12 am
by Mirek69
rbodleyscott wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:40 am
Mirek69 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:37 am
Can they be distinguished as "Argyraspidae" in the next patch ?

They are by no means the only unit type in the game that was known by different names in different armies or at different times, despite being functionally identical. In order to produce a game covering such a wide historical and geographical range, we were obliged to keep the number of different models and textures down to a reasonable number, otherwise the game could not have got produced at all. We could not give every known historical unit its own individual name (and texture) - e.g. all the hundreds of individually named Late Roman units for which the Notitia Dignitatum gives names and shield patterns.
I hope that this will happen in FOG3 :D

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:31 pm
by MVP7
rbodleyscott wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:40 am
We could add a duplicate unit to the Squads file so they could have a different name in the Seleucid army, but the maximum number of units in the squads file is finite, and this might not be a worthwhile use of a space.
How finite is the squad file size?

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:35 pm
by rbodleyscott
MVP7 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:31 pm
rbodleyscott wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:40 am
We could add a duplicate unit to the Squads file so they could have a different name in the Seleucid army, but the maximum number of units in the squads file is finite, and this might not be a worthwhile use of a space.
How finite is the squad file size?
1028 different units IIRC.

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:07 am
by pinwolf
At the moment we are a little below 300 (with TableTop and Silk Road mods).

Re: Silver Shields - Argyraspidai

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:40 am
by rbodleyscott
pinwolf wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:07 am
At the moment we are a little below 300 (with TableTop and Silk Road mods).
True, but there are a lot more units to come.