Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
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SLancaster
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Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by SLancaster » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:33 pm

I have been discussing this with a few players and we are still not sure what happened. I was playing a game v Barrold and my Irregulars attacked an elephant from the flank but they didn't receive any flank attack bonus.

I was in the right position as far as I can tell. Barrold says that he wondered if I was in the ZoC of the Triarii close by. That can't be it because I did attack the elephant just with no bonus.

At the time I just thought that Irregulars were classed as light infantry in this instance but this is not the case according to SnuggleBunny.

Anyone else had this experience?

Ludendorf
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by Ludendorf » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:28 pm

Where were they coming in from? Did they definitely start from a 90 degree angle or higher to the elephants' front? And were the elephants engaged or not? I'd imagine irregular infantry might have a hard time against elephants on impact even if they were coming in from the flank... though would a flank attack negate the elephants' shock POA advantage or just counteract it?

Barrold713
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by Barrold713 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:42 pm

The situation was my elephants were engaged with Simon's spearmen from the North. The speamen were also in melee with my veteran heavy foot from the West. His dirty bathrobe dudes did move to a 90 degree flank position to my elephant and then during my turn, I moved a triarii unit into a rear flank attack position of those DBDs. When he attacked the elephant, there was no flank bonus. When my triarii attacked in my turn there definitely was. 8)

Ludendorf
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by Ludendorf » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:01 pm

Strange...

If a unit of infantry (any medium or heavy infantry) strikes a unit of engaged elephants in the flanks, that should be an instant cohesion drop. It doesn't matter if you're throwing a unit of puny mob in there; that cohesion drop is free, and elephants usually suffer pretty badly when hit in the side. There is no situation I know of where having another hostile unit nearby would prevent the cohesion loss; if ZOC'd by the front of the hostile unit, they might not be able to attack at all, but if the attack was possible, they should have gotten the flank attack bonus.

melm
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by melm » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:05 pm

If we have screenshot...

SLancaster
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by SLancaster » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:57 am

At the time I didn’t think it was a bug (if it is). I had been chatting before with Bunny about flank attacks and lights not causing cohesion drops. I assumed at the time that this was what was happening.. so I didn’t take a screenshot. We have Barrold’s testimony, though!

Barrold713
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by Barrold713 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:35 pm

SLancaster wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:57 am
At the time I didn’t think it was a bug (if it is). I had been chatting before with Bunny about flank attacks and lights not causing cohesion drops. I assumed at the time that this was what was happening.. so I didn’t take a screenshot. We have Barrold’s testimony, though!
I am a notoriously unreliable source though

rbodleyscott
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:31 pm

SLancaster wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:57 am
At the time I didn’t think it was a bug (if it is).
It is extremely unlikely to be a bug. More likely some aspect of the situation that is unclear without a screenshot.

For example, moving into a valid flanking position and then charging in the same turn does not count as a flank charge. The charging unit has to be behind the flank at the start of the turn.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

Barrold713
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by Barrold713 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:47 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:31 pm
SLancaster wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:57 am
At the time I didn’t think it was a bug (if it is).
It is extremely unlikely to be a bug. More likely some aspect of the situation that is unclear without a screenshot.

For example, moving into a valid flanking position and then charging in the same turn does not count as a flank charge. The charging unit has to be behind the flank at the start of the turn.
My recollection is the sequence went this way
1. My elephant and heavy foot were in melee with Simon's spearmen.
2. Simon moved his dirty bathrobe dudes into the perpendicular flanking position.
3. I move a triarii adjacent to the DBDs with a 135 degree diagonal flanking position so he was in my primary ZOC
4. The DBDs charge with apparently no flank attack bonus
5 My triarii charge and get a rear flank bonus and I believe the DBDs fragmented with much soiling of undergarments, gnashing of teeth, and pulling of hair.

BDH

SLancaster
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by SLancaster » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:42 pm

Yes, the charge came in one turn after being in the 90 degree position from the previous turn. The info didn’t indicate any flank bonus before the charge.

MVP7
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by MVP7 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:24 pm

Was the area open or not open? Were the irregulars or the elephants in enclosed area or something like that?

Barrold713
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by Barrold713 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:42 pm

MVP7 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:24 pm
Was the area open or not open? Were the irregulars or the elephants in enclosed area or something like that?
Nope, clear terrain all around. Empty as a Taco Bell parking lot in Veganville.

BDH

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:13 pm

sorry for goofy post
Last edited by GiveWarAchance on Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rbodleyscott
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:40 am

Well all I can say is that if something like this happens again, please take a screen shot and post it.

As I say, this part of the program is unlikely to be bugged after all this time, so there is probably something about the particular situation that we are missing.

The ZOC thing indicates that it was not being treated as a flank attack, because the game will not allow a flank attack on another unit by a unit that is in the primary ZOC of an enemy unit. But it would not remove the flank attack bonus, it would simply not allow the charge at all.

What I suspect is this. The DBD looked as if they were behind the flank of the elephant unit, because the single elephant model was turned to face the spearmen. But the elephant unit may not yet have turned to face the spearmen. In units with only one model (or single ranked units attacked from the rear) you can only see this by looking at the facing of the banner, because the model(s) will face the enemy before the unit turns to face the enemy, and there are no other models to indicate the theoretical facing of the unit.

The flank attack positioning, however, is based on the theoretical facing of the unit, and not on the facing of the fighting models. This is obvious in units with more than 1 rank of models, because if they are attacked from any direction other than directly to their front, only some of the models will turn to face the enemy. But there are no such visual clues for single model units such as elephants or chariots, or single-rank units such cavalry who have been attacked from directly to their rear.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

SLancaster
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Re: Irregulars and Flank Attacks

Post by SLancaster » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:51 am

The elephant had been in melee for a few turns already with the spearmen. It should of been a flank attack as far as I could see.

Yes, screenshots next time.

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