Break or Evade???

[rurumickely]

Is there any sort of rule of thumb or a method of predicting whether a fragmented unit will break or evade when charged? Too often, I am charging fragmented units and seeing them evade away...

[rbodleyscott]

Is there any sort of rule of thumb or a method of predicting whether a fragmented unit will break or evade when charged? Too often, I am charging fragmented units and seeing them evade away...

They take a cohesion test. If they fail the cohesion test they break, if they pass they evade.

They will have a -2 modifier on the Cohesion Test for already being Fragmented, and may have additional negative modifiers for existing losses.

If the -2 modifier is the only modifier, their chance of failing the cohesion test and breaking is as follows, depending on the unit quality:

72.9 % untrained
58.3 % average
43.2 % superior
33.3 % elite

If they have suffered 25% losses, bringing the modifier to -3, their chances of breaking become:

85.4 % untrained
72.2 % average
62.2 % superior
50.6 % elite

Obviously this does not allow you to reliably predict whether they will break or evade, but at least you can figure out the chances.

[DrPsyche]

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑
Re: Break or Evade???
https://writemyessaytoday.net/
They take a cohesion test. If they fail the cohesion test they break, if they pass they evade.

They will have a -2 modifier on the Cohesion Test for already being Fragmented, and may have additional negative modifiers for existing losses.

If the -2 modifier is the only modifier, their chance of failing the cohesion test and breaking is as follows, depending on the unit quality:

72.9 % untrained
58.3 % average
43.2 % superior
33.3 % elite

If they have suffered 25% losses, bringing the modifier to -3, their chances of breaking become:

85.4 % untrained
72.2 % average
62.2 % superior
50.6 % elite

Obviously this does not allow you to reliably predict whether they will break or evade, but at least you can figure out the chances.

Thanks for sharing, the percentage is rather impressive. I often experienced this too, when I charged fragmented units and then they evaded away. I knew there was something you can at least rely on, but couldn't find anything valid.

[Blastom1016]

Is there any sort of rule of thumb or a method of predicting whether a fragmented unit will break or evade when charged? Too often, I am charging fragmented units and seeing them evade away...

They take a cohesion test. If they fail the cohesion test they break, if they pass they evade.

They will have a -2 modifier on the Cohesion Test for already being Fragmented, and may have additional negative modifiers for existing losses.

If the -2 modifier is the only modifier, their chance of failing the cohesion test and breaking is as follows, depending on the unit quality:

72.9 % untrained
58.3 % average
43.2 % superior
33.3 % elite

If they have suffered 25% losses, bringing the modifier to -3, their chances of breaking become:

85.4 % untrained
72.2 % average
62.2 % superior
50.6 % elite

Obviously this does not allow you to reliably predict whether they will break or evade, but at least you can figure out the chances.

Hello, rbodleyscott. As you mentioned the cohesion modifier from loss, I'm wondering if the lose in melee and lose a melee combat modification kick in.
So when I tries to break an engaged fragmented enemy with charge, is it better to resolve melee first to apply some loss in melee penalty or to charge directly?

[rbodleyscott]

Hello, rbodleyscott. As you mentioned the cohesion modifier from loss, I'm wondering if the lose in melee and lose a melee combat modification kick in.
So when I tries to break an engaged fragmented enemy with charge, is it better to resolve melee first to apply some loss in melee penalty or to charge directly?

No, those modifiers only apply in the test for losing the combat round.

[lapdog666]

Is there any sort of rule of thumb or a method of predicting whether a fragmented unit will break or evade when charged? Too often, I am charging fragmented units and seeing them evade away...

They take a cohesion test. If they fail the cohesion test they break, if they pass they evade.

They will have a -2 modifier on the Cohesion Test for already being Fragmented, and may have additional negative modifiers for existing losses.

If the -2 modifier is the only modifier, their chance of failing the cohesion test and breaking is as follows, depending on the unit quality:

72.9 % untrained
58.3 % average
43.2 % superior
33.3 % elite

If they have suffered 25% losses, bringing the modifier to -3, their chances of breaking become:

85.4 % untrained
72.2 % average
62.2 % superior
50.6 % elite

Obviously this does not allow you to reliably predict whether they will break or evade, but at least you can figure out the chances.

can we get percenteges for non disrupted/fragmented troops
and also how does impact foot, elephants and lancer cav play out in this calculation

[rbodleyscott]

Is there any sort of rule of thumb or a method of predicting whether a fragmented unit will break or evade when charged? Too often, I am charging fragmented units and seeing them evade away...

They take a cohesion test. If they fail the cohesion test they break, if they pass they evade.

They will have a -2 modifier on the Cohesion Test for already being Fragmented, and may have additional negative modifiers for existing losses.

If the -2 modifier is the only modifier, their chance of failing the cohesion test and breaking is as follows, depending on the unit quality:

72.9 % untrained
58.3 % average
43.2 % superior
33.3 % elite

If they have suffered 25% losses, bringing the modifier to -3, their chances of breaking become:

85.4 % untrained
72.2 % average
62.2 % superior
50.6 % elite

Obviously this does not allow you to reliably predict whether they will break or evade, but at least you can figure out the chances.

can we get percenteges for non disrupted/fragmented troops

Well for those the percentage is 0% as they don't have to test when they are charged.

and also how does impact foot, elephants and lancer cav play out in this calculation

If you are asking in general terms about chances of failing cohesion tests, this article (although written for P&S) will answer:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =735499412

Although some of the cohesion tests modifiers are different in FOG2, the cohesion test failure chances are the same for any given total modifier.

[lapdog666]

They take a cohesion test. If they fail the cohesion test they break, if they pass they evade.

They will have a -2 modifier on the Cohesion Test for already being Fragmented, and may have additional negative modifiers for existing losses.

If the -2 modifier is the only modifier, their chance of failing the cohesion test and breaking is as follows, depending on the unit quality:

72.9 % untrained
58.3 % average
43.2 % superior
33.3 % elite

If they have suffered 25% losses, bringing the modifier to -3, their chances of breaking become:

85.4 % untrained
72.2 % average
62.2 % superior
50.6 % elite

Obviously this does not allow you to reliably predict whether they will break or evade, but at least you can figure out the chances.

can we get percenteges for non disrupted/fragmented troops

Well for those the percentage is 0% as they don't have to test when they are charged.

and also how does impact foot, elephants and lancer cav play out in this calculation

If you are asking in general terms about chances of failing cohesion tests, this article (although written for P&S) will answer:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =735499412

Although some of the cohesion tests modifiers are different in FOG2, the cohesion test failure chances are the same for any given total modifier.

could you also tell me

1) what does threathened flank means. is it when a unit is having an enemy unit facing* its flank and having enough AP* to strike , or is it something bit more different , i need every detail. sometimes in this game details are powerful.


2) are the modifiers stacking ? 9% casualties by shooting + threathened flank is -2 instead of -1 now ?

[Blastom1016]

1) what does threathened flank means. is it when a unit is having an enemy unit facing* its flank and having enough AP* to strike , or is it something bit more different , i need every detail. sometimes in this game details are powerful.

I'm also wondering this.
From what I got from google, being too close to the edge of map will also be considered as threatened flank. Is that true?

[rbodleyscott]

1) what does threathened flank means. is it when a unit is having an enemy unit facing* its flank and having enough AP* to strike , or is it something bit more different , i need every detail. sometimes in this game details are powerful.

I'm also wondering this.
From what I got from google, being too close to the edge of map will also be considered as threatened flank. Is that true?

No

[rbodleyscott]

1) what does threathened flank means. is it when a unit is having an enemy unit facing* its flank and having enough AP* to strike

It is having an enemy unit that is actually capable of flank/rear charging it next turn.

are the modifiers stacking ? 9% casualties by shooting + threathened flank is -2 instead of -1 now ?

Most of the modifiers stack, but there are some exceptions. Also some modifiers only apply in cohesion tests for specific reasons.

This is detailed in the manual, section 15.2. See the table.

In your example, the two modifiers would stack if the cohesion test resulted from shooting, but the shooting casualties malus would not apply in a cohesion test caused by something else later in the turn.

[zakblood]

zoraya, your choice, either stay and be a good member or be banned for adding junk and spam / link at a later date, your call, i await the edit or reply

[kronenblatt]

Is there any sort of rule of thumb or a method of predicting whether a fragmented unit will break or evade when charged? Too often, I am charging fragmented units and seeing them evade away...

They take a cohesion test. If they fail the cohesion test they break, if they pass they evade.

They will have a -2 modifier on the Cohesion Test for already being Fragmented, and may have additional negative modifiers for existing losses.

If the -2 modifier is the only modifier, their chance of failing the cohesion test and breaking is as follows, depending on the unit quality:

72.9 % untrained
58.3 % average
43.2 % superior
33.3 % elite

If they have suffered 25% losses, bringing the modifier to -3, their chances of breaking become:

85.4 % untrained
72.2 % average
62.2 % superior
50.6 % elite

Obviously this does not allow you to reliably predict whether they will break or evade, but at least you can figure out the chances.

So a fragmented unit being charged will always evade if passing the cohesion test? (Couldn't find anything about that in the manual or in the patch notes.)

But found this in the manual (p87):

Also, a unit that is Fragmented may break (without waiting to be contacted) if charged by another unit, even if it became Fragmented as a result of a previous impact close combat this turn.

[rbodleyscott]

So a fragmented unit being charged will always evade if passing the cohesion test? (Couldn't find anything about that in the manual or in the patch notes.)

Well the short answer is no, but mostly they will.

A longer answer is:

If
1) It is of a type that is allowed to evade.
2) It is unlikely to get caught or its chances in a combat are sufficiently low that it will try to evade even if it is likely to get caught.

By design, there are very few absolutes in FOG2. Human behaviour is partly, but not completely, predictable.

When I was studying medicine, we had a rule of thumb on multiple choice exam questions. If the answer said "always" or "never" then you could assume it was False. The real world is not that simple.

[kronenblatt]

So a fragmented unit being charged will always evade if passing the cohesion test? (Couldn't find anything about that in the manual or in the patch notes.)

Well the short answer is no, but mostly they will.

A longer answer is:

If
1) It is of a type that is allowed to evade.
2) It is unlikely to get caught or its chances in a combat are sufficiently low that it will try to evade even if it is likely to get caught.

By design, there are very few absolutes in FOG2. Human behaviour is partly, but not completely, predictable.

When I was studying medicine, we had a rule of thumb on multiple choice exam questions. If the answer said "always" or "never" then you could assume it was False. The real world is not that simple.

Good point. Point taken. And many thanks for answer. EDIT: Plus really good game design by the way: as you say, human behaviour (in the form of soldiers making up the units) is partly, but not completely, predictable.