Increasing number of figures displayed

Pi-R
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
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Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Pi-R » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:07 pm

Hi

I am trying to increase the number of men displayed per unit. Doubling the man count worked. Except that numbers above 16 resulted in errors stating 16 is the maximum allowed.

Of course for some units the figures now overlap, especially cavalry units and camels. The front legs of the 2nd row of horses/camels get placed at about the same place as the behind legs of the first row of horses/camels first row of camels. So I want to shrink each figure so they no longer overlap. I thought IconSize and IconHeight would do this but so far this showed no effect when I decreased both by to 4/5 of the original value.

Am I using the wrong variables?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:24 pm

The engine really won't support what you are trying to do, because it won't allow more than 16 models in a unit, so your pike phalanxes will look the same as the other units.

InconSize and IconHeight are nothing to do with the size of the models, and are not in fact used for anything in the current game.

UnitScaling controls the size of the models. It isn't consistent because we were unable to get MAX to export the models at a constant scale, so we had to adjust the scaling for many of the models manually. A value of 0 in the UnitScaling column means no scaling was required but is equivalent to a scaling value of 1000.
Richard Bodley Scott

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majgentob
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by majgentob » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:06 am

First, congratulations on what seems to bean amazing game with many innovations that will make turn-based play faster and more compelling. Huge fan of P&S.

The scale has been the one thing that has kept me from clicking "buy" on Steam. These were big battles, and I generally only stick with games (such as P&S) that make them look big. I hope P&S will retain the aesthetic that so nicely models collisions between masses of men, and I hope PI-R will find a way to approximate that look in this game as well. It may result in another purchase!

Stardog765
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Stardog765 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:54 pm

As much as I love this game so far I too would love to see something like this possible.

I know it seems like a small thing but I am usually in the same boat as the previous poster where I generally prefer games like this that at least give a little better representation of the vast number of troop represented on the field.
Now this is in no way an slight on this game as I said I LOVE it, I also love P&S because it does this pretty well.

I am hopeful at some point this will be something that can be modded in some way.

Congrats on a great game and very good release so far.

Edit: I just reread the initial post in this thread, so did the OP get the man count increased a little bit? So am I understand we can change a setting to at least make the man count a little bit higher and does the game still play ok like that?
Just curious because even if it can be increased as is just a little that would be nice. As long as it doesnt break anything of course. :)

Thanks

Pi-R
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Pi-R » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:47 pm

Hi Richard

Thanks for pointing out I was looking at the wrong variable to decrease the size. I’m going to try the UnitScaling. Good to already know there is no standard setting for all icons.

About the Phalanx, I know that doubling the ManCouny values (and set everything above 16 back back to 16) like I initially did create for example cohorts and phalanxes to have the same number of men being displayed.

I must admit that already with FOG1 I was not really pleased with the way phalanxes had been included. I may be wrong but I believe phalanx units were much wider than e.g. cohorts. And using two phalanx units next to each other in FOG to display one actual phalanx unit does not really solve this. At least I do not remember ever having read half of a phalanx running away or chasing the enemy while the other half continued fighting at the same place. Was it not all or nothing? I understand the current engine will not allow units that span two fields. And of course this asks for more than just displaying a unit across two fields.

But back to changing the display of units. Maybe using 12 for cohorts and 16 for phalanxes looks better. However not every ManCount value turned out to be showing the soldiers in a nice way when I tried multiplying them by 1.5.

I noticed the following values resulted in the soldiers to be displayed in rows with the following number of soldiers:

ManCount > Soldiers per row (front row to back)
1 > 1
2 > 2

3 > 1-2
4 > 4
5 > 1-3-1
6 > 2-3-1
7 > 2-3-2
8 > 4-4
9 > 2-3-3
12 > 4-4-4
16 > 4-4-4-4
(10, 11, 13, 14 and 15 all display as 9, i.e. only 9 soldiers; the bold ones are the values currently used in the game)

So probably I will have to make a choice for each unit separate what visually seems right without too much relating it to the total number it should actually represent.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:11 pm

Pi-R wrote:Hi Richard

Thanks for pointing out I was looking at the wrong variable to decrease the size. I’m going to try the UnitScaling. Good to already know there is no standard setting for all icons.

About the Phalanx, I know that doubling the ManCouny values (and set everything above 16 back back to 16) like I initially did create for example cohorts and phalanxes to have the same number of men being displayed.

I must admit that already with FOG1 I was not really pleased with the way phalanxes had been included. I may be wrong but I believe phalanx units were much wider than e.g. cohorts. And using two phalanx units next to each other in FOG to display one actual phalanx unit does not really solve this. At least I do not remember ever having read half of a phalanx running away or chasing the enemy while the other half continued fighting at the same place. Was it not all or nothing? I understand the current engine will not allow units that span two fields. And of course this asks for more than just displaying a unit across two fields.

But back to changing the display of units. Maybe using 12 for cohorts and 16 for phalanxes looks better. However not every ManCount value turned out to be showing the soldiers in a nice way when I tried multiplying them by 1.5.

I noticed the following values resulted in the soldiers to be displayed in rows with the following number of soldiers:

ManCount > Soldiers per row (front row to back)
1 > 1
2 > 2

3 > 1-2
4 > 4
5 > 1-3-1
6 > 2-3-1
7 > 2-3-2
8 > 4-4
9 > 2-3-3
12 > 4-4-4
16 > 4-4-4-4
(10, 11, 13, 14 and 15 all display as 9, i.e. only 9 soldiers; the bold ones are the values currently used in the game)

So probably I will have to make a choice for each unit separate what visually seems right without too much relating it to the total number it should actually represent.
The formations have to be coded in Formation_Callback() in /Data/Battle/Scripts/Callbacks.BSF

As these were the only vanilla formations, only 2, 4, 8, 12, and 16 are currently coded.

If you look carefully at the ones showing only 9, I think you will see that there are in fact a bunch of men on top of each other, as the engine default formation only works for up to 8 men.

You could mod Formation_Calback() to use proper formations for those other ManCount formations.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Pi-R
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Pi-R » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:16 pm

Thanks Richard, this was very helpfull.

I have now created formations also for ManCount values 3, 5 and 7, especially for cavalry units.
Cavalry2_7.jpg
ManCount 3, 5 and 7
Cavalry2_7.jpg (3.33 MiB) Viewed 4538 times
For infantry units I have created a formation for ManCount = 14 to have something available in between 12 and 16 when I want to change units with formation of 12 (3x4) to 16 (4x4).
Infantry12_16.jpg
ManCount 12, 14 and 16
Infantry12_16.jpg (3.42 MiB) Viewed 4538 times
Sorry this is my first time I try to include images. Obviously not a success :(
No sure if it is the free directupload .net or the way I include the URLs. So then only can attach the jpg files.

jomni
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by jomni » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:13 pm

Thanks for experimenting. But it is now less evident that pike formations are 2x the size of other units.

Pi-R
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Pi-R » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:46 pm

Hi jomni
Unfortunately 16 figures in one square seems to be the limit of the system.

Please be aware the figure showed the pike men having 16 figures next to slaves having 14 figures. In vanilla slaves had ManCount 12.

For comparison I have added Hastati/Principes with ManCount changed from 8 to 12 and Triarii with ManCount changed from 4 to 8. I know the Phalanx is till not twice the number of Hastati/Principes or 4 times of Triarii, but the difference is more clear compared with the 14 the slaves had.
Infantry8_16.jpg
Infantry8_16.jpg (3.9 MiB) Viewed 4469 times
For those who are interested, my updated Callbacks.BSF version that will allow ManCount values 3, 5, 7 and 14 to be used in squads.csv in addition to the vanilla values 1, 2, 4, 8, 12 and 16. Note it only causes changes in display and not in any other statistic.
Callbacks.zip
(9.9 KiB) Downloaded 122 times

Arthur Wellesley
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Arthur Wellesley » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:26 pm

Hello,

I'm aware of that at the moment the system has no higher numbers than 16 defined for "ManCount".
But with a reduced "UnitScaling", the models of a unit have much more space for more of them.

Is it very difficult to change this limit of 16 to have higher numbers?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:26 pm

Arthur Wellesley wrote:Is it very difficult to change this limit of 16 to have higher numbers?
Yes. It would need significant changes to the engine.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Adebar
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Adebar » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Just wanted to say thanks to Pi-R and others for the inspiration. Experimented a bit with the 'ManCount' settings and found a way to get results I'm quite happy with.

Did the following changes in Squads.csv

Heavy and Mid Infantry: 12
Light Infantry: unchanged
Warbands/Pikes: 16
Elephants: 3
Heavy Chariots: unchanged
Light Chariots: 2
Aux. Archers: 8
Cavalry: 7
Cataphracts: unchanged
Light Cavalry: 3
Artillery: unchanged

If you know what to do adding those changes is not too time-consuming; a bit more than 10 minutes. Custom campaigns and scenarios can also easily changed this way.

The achieved mass effect is so much fun! IMO the game's glorious graphics really come into its own this way. With 'Idle Animations' turned off and shadow quality set to low I notice no stutter or lagging on my older computer.

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jjaquemond
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by jjaquemond » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:12 pm

Really like what you've done Pi-R - mass effect looks much better

Any chance you could post the re-worked CSV file with the new 'mancount' settings'? I don't really know what I'm doing so the changes will be Very time consuming (def. NOT 10min)

Or list a quick re-cap of the process?

Adebar
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Adebar » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:50 pm

Hi jjaquemond!

The Belisarius DLC is out tomorrow so it makes no sense to post the modified CSV file here now. I have to take a look at the new units first when I find some time (ten minutes! :mrgreen:), then I might share the mod in the course of the next one or two weeks or so.

Cheers,

A.
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jjaquemond
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by jjaquemond » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:05 pm

Many thanks Adebar - Yes looking forward to the new DLC

Adebar
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Adebar » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:30 pm

Ok, here it is:

The Small Mass Effect Mod

Image

As described further above this mod changes almost all units' mancount value to achieve a more massive look for your armies.

Stats are the following:

Heavy and Mid Infantry: 12
Light Infantry: 7
Warbands/Pikes: 16 (unchanged)
Elephants: 3
Heavy Chariots: 1 (unchanged)
Light Chariots: 2
Aux. Archers: 8/12 (still undecided)
Cavalry: 7
Light Cavalry: 3
Artillery: 1 (unchanged)

The mod has its Pros and Cons.
Cons are: Higher FPS (I recommend to turn off 'idle animation' and set shadows to 'low'), lesser clarity about what's going on at the battle line ('Chaos of Battle'), 3D models of cavalry tend to overlap at certain instances. Pros: It looks nice. :wink:

Download:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/b553ow619 ... s.csv/file

Installation:

- In the Game's main folder go to the 'Data' folder, there you'll find the Squads.csv file. Make a backup copy of this file!
- The file may be write protected. Change that by right-clicking on it/Options/unchecking the 'Read only' entry.
- Now put the modded file into the Data folder and let it overwrite the original one.
- Fire up the game.
- Enjoy it - or not!

Please note that the mod is only working with the vanilla scenarios/campaigns/skirmishes and custom content that doesn't use additional units in a modded Squads file.

Feedback appreaciated!
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jjaquemond
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by jjaquemond » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:42 pm

Wunderbar! Fantastic work. The mass effect looks Excellent - really makes a difference. Infantry units look great, Cavalry great, Elephants finally have that 'solid' feel to them... I expect to play this a LOT over the weekend - will keep you posted if I notice anything unusual.

Vielen dank Adebar

Adebar
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by Adebar » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Dankeschön! :) And sure, please let me know if there are some issues to be fixed or if you've got some proposals or wishes for the mod.

Cheers,

A.

---

EDIT:

jjaquemond wrote:Elephants finally have that 'solid' feel to them...
Image

:wink:
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jjaquemond
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by jjaquemond » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:09 am

After a whirlwind weekend of gaming, happy to report no bugs or crashes. The mod works great. Campaigns, large battles, skirmishes, etc. all run smoothly

Many thanks again!

Its a pleasure to see the formations finally have some density to them - Even a small Roman force in classic 'checkerboard' looks like an army now :D
Roman ChckBrd.png
Roman ChckBrd.png (1.39 MiB) Viewed 2913 times
Since you ask for wishes (haha) How difficult would it be to make this compatible with the TT mods?

jjaquemond
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Re: Increasing number of figures displayed

Post by jjaquemond » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:18 pm

Another round of games - playing online Multiplayer / and I've noted a few strange things

The Mod appears to work sometimes - in some games my opponent and I will have the bigger units, in other games they will Not. I'm assuming it's because they have modded army lists that are Not compatible w this mod (I've gotten a few errors saying our 'scripts' don't match…)

FYI this is a holiday week - Adebar any interest in a PBEM game?

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