Another group of ideas for a mod . . .

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stockwellpete
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Another group of ideas for a mod . . .

Post by stockwellpete » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:41 am

I am not able to mod, but following a recent discussion in the FOG2DL forum about the balance between luck and skill in the game I have come up with a few ideas to balance the game slightly differently . . .

i) I think that double cohesion drops are sometimes a big problem at the start of a battle. In the Themed Event this time, we have a Frankish war band theme and it is quite common for war band units to fragment on impact when the two battle lines come together. Then, when these fragmented units rout soon after all, the adjacent units have to take cohesion tests, and if they fail some of these then that army is in serious trouble. The battle can be lost when a player has not even made a mistake. The skill quotient is very low here. This shouldn't be happening at all, in my opinion. If you changed the game so that units over 75% strength could not suffer double-drops in cohesion in most 1 v 1 situations then you would remove this issue from the start of battles. Rear attacks, 2 v 1's or situations where superior units fought weaker units (e.g cataphracts v irregular foot, in the open) would still be able to achieve double-drops regardless of the numerical strength of the losing unit.

ii) I do not think there should be an automatic cohesion loss for flank attacks, although they should be retained for rear attacks which should always be devastating. Flank attacks should not be happening in the middle of a melee. Instead a greater reward would accrue to players who achieved 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 combats, a mechanism that is working very well in the game.

iii) I am not even sure how to explain my last idea in terms of computer programming. But imagine two players sitting at a table playing a game of TT FOG. Instead of rolling a die each time for combat or rallying etc, they would reach down into a bag that contained 60 discs (10 of them numbered 6, 10 of them numbered 5 and so on, all the way down to 10 of them numbered 1). When the score on the disc was fed into the game the disc would not be returned to the bag. So, if the player pulled out a 6, then there would only be nine 6's left in the bag and so the chance of getting another one for that player would be reduced a bit, and the other player would now have a slightly better chance than his opponent of getting the next 6. And so on. In this way the relative "luck element" between the two players would be moderated, but not removed altogether. Once a player had used 30 discs, the bag would be filled up again. I have been told it is possible to create something like this.

Anyone interested in these ideas?

stockwellpete
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Re: Another group of ideas for a mod . . .

Post by stockwellpete » Sun May 03, 2020 7:40 am

A year later and absolutely no interest! :lol:

Anyway, I will flag this up again to see if there are any new modders that like any one of these three separate ideas. The main point about idea ii) is that I do not see "flank attacks" and "rear attacks" as being separate things in a time where armies mostly fought in extended lines. An attack from a flank on an extended line would wrap around the end of the enemy extended line and be pretty much the same as a rear attack. So that is the rationale for abandoning flank attacks altogether.

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Re: Another group of ideas for a mod . . .

Post by Schweetness101 » Sun May 10, 2020 1:46 pm

i) so prevent double drops (both on impact and in melee?) if the unit in question:
-has greater than 75% total strength
-is not receiving a rear charge that causes an auto drop (ie auto drop + losing impact can still double drop you)
-is not in a 2v1 (did not start in a 2v1 or is not in a 2v1 now that it has been charged again?)
-the quality disparity between itself and the other unit is greater than some amount, maybe 2 levels, in its favor

ii) this is taken care of by the flank angle mod? or would you add something else there?

iii) this is an interesting idea but would take some doing to develop. If I understand it correctly, the 'bag of discs' as it were is used by the player across all of their units, ie each unit doesn't have its own bag that would prevent it from rolling too well or too badly too many times. The main difficulty would be in storing the information across turns I would think (lots of things reset at the beginning of a turn), but I guess I could make some persistent collection that tracks every roll.
There might be a simpler way of modeling this that gets a similar result using some combinatorics formulas

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Re: Another group of ideas for a mod . . .

Post by stockwellpete » Thu May 21, 2020 6:35 am

Schweetness101 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:46 pm
i) so prevent double drops (both on impact and in melee?) if the unit in question:
-has greater than 75% total strength
-is not receiving a rear charge that causes an auto drop (ie auto drop + losing impact can still double drop you)
-is not in a 2v1 (did not start in a 2v1 or is not in a 2v1 now that it has been charged again?)
-the quality disparity between itself and the other unit is greater than some amount, maybe 2 levels, in its favor

ii) this is taken care of by the flank angle mod? or would you add something else there?

iii) this is an interesting idea but would take some doing to develop. If I understand it correctly, the 'bag of discs' as it were is used by the player across all of their units, ie each unit doesn't have its own bag that would prevent it from rolling too well or too badly too many times. The main difficulty would be in storing the information across turns I would think (lots of things reset at the beginning of a turn), but I guess I could make some persistent collection that tracks every roll.
There might be a simpler way of modeling this that gets a similar result using some combinatorics formulas
Sorry, I missed this post.

i) yes, that's it. Regarding the 2v1's I am not absolutely sure, but maybe impact combat would not cause double-drops, but melee combat could even if unit over 75% strength. That would have to be tested.

ii) yes, we have this covered already

iii) yes, across all the units. Apparently we do not have pure RNG in the game now. There was a discussion where "mean" numbers were mentioned, so this idea bears down a bit more on the RNG to reduce what I refer to as the "luck" element.

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Re: Another group of ideas for a mod . . .

Post by desicat » Thu May 21, 2020 9:54 pm

The "bag of discs" also ensures that every unit will both roll exceedingly well and horrifically poor at some point, possibly making drastic outcomes more pronounced. One could also limit the number of discs drawn, but at that point one might just as well use the original RNG and ride the percentages.

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