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Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 pm
by GladiusFan
re: back armor comments

wait does it matter which side of the unit you are shooting at in this game?

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:22 pm
by ErissN6
'common' Dreadnought (in codex) can be added armor, I imagine they put it in its back (few need to add in front).
Maybe use the research 'Added Infantry Armor' to add 2 points to the Dreadnought (even he may be classified as vehicle). It should be actually 1 point of armor, but it should be more effective as the dreadnought has now more freedom of movement (less need to only show its front).

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:49 pm
by Galdred
IainMcNeil wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:55 am
The armour comes from the codex apparently unless someone got it wrong.
How come vehicle armors are so low compared to Space Marines armor then?
Which codex is it from?
Their durability is much higher in Sanctus Reach.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:05 am
by ErissN6
Or maybe, instead of research, add an ability to the Dreadnought:
.Covered: gains 1 armor for each ally beside, up to 3.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:15 am
by Dwarf_power
ErissN6 wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:05 am
Or maybe, instead of research, add an ability to the Dreadnought:
.Covered: gains 1 armor for each ally beside, up to 3.
Or....just give it the armor its supposed to have so it can function as a front line unit.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:54 am
by ErissN6
Yes, a frontline unit: it needs several units to make a line... Remove him front the frontline and, alone, he losses far more efficiency than others alone, because he is very slow, even to hide his back from the enemy.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:21 am
by Taare
guys, this is not tabletop, directional armor does not apply.
It has low armor for a space marine unit. Also only having a two tile range meaning it wont be your fire support and in range for all the enemy.
And since its use in this game is melee, in which it packs a hella punch it should have some durability, if devs are afraid of balance issues, the armor could be left as is, but give it a hunker down bonus with say 75-90% dmg reduction while it regenerates for say three turns being unable to act.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:01 pm
by eddieballgame
I have only played the Space Marines, to date. I know zero about the strengths & weaknesses of units per the other factions. Based on some testing I have done, the Devastator (Tier 3) appears to be a superior unit than the Dreadnought (Tier 5). Even when I upped the Dreadnought's armor to 8...it was pretty even. Grant it the units in question are meant to be used...differently, though it is hard for me to not just keep pumping out Devastators, especially when factoring in 'time & cost'.
For those who have the same opinion, there is something one could try. Move the Dreadnought to Tier 3. (an easy edit per the XML file) This allows one the choice of his or her preference at the same Tier level adding an element of decision making strategy. One could also increase the armor to 8 & still move it to Tier 3 or 4. Maybe better still is to raise it to armor 9 & leave it where it is.

The 'devs' know this great game much better then I do, & I also have very little experience/knowledge of the WH 40k world. I do trust their judgement per their unit designs, I have to...there are so many. :)
Which tells me I am not using the Dreadnoughts as intended. Any help in this area would be most welcomed.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:57 pm
by Dwarf_power
ErissN6 wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:54 am
Yes, a frontline unit: it needs several units to make a line... Remove him front the frontline and, alone, he losses far more efficiency than others alone, because he is very slow, even to hide his back from the enemy.
That's not the definition of front line.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:16 pm
by Andralor
In fact, the problem does not come from the dreadnought, but in my opinion, from how TT infantry's armour saves and vehicle's armouring are retranscribed in the game under one unique value (the armour)

This means that infantry with good armour save (like SM 3+) can't have a low armour value in the game. But it also means that vehicle with medium armouring on TT can't have a too high armour value in gladius.
Infantry with save 3+ on TT got armour 8
Vehicles with armouring 11-12 on TT got armour 7-8 on gladius

And there is more. Leman russ battle tank, armouring 14 on TT (the best in v7) got 9 armour while SM's Captain can goes up to 10 (with a standard sm armour, not even a terminator one, but terminator armor give invulnerable damage reduction so..)
Though the monolith can go up to armour 10, it's interesting.


I think the armor system will pose many balance problems.

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:45 am
by Galdred
Andralor wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:16 pm
In fact, the problem does not come from the dreadnought, but in my opinion, from how TT infantry's armour saves and vehicle's armouring are retranscribed in the game under one unique value (the armour)

This means that infantry with good armour save (like SM 3+) can't have a low armour value in the game. But it also means that vehicle with medium armouring on TT can't have a too high armour value in gladius.
Infantry with save 3+ on TT got armour 8
Vehicles with armouring 11-12 on TT got armour 7-8 on gladius

And there is more. Leman russ battle tank, armouring 14 on TT (the best in v7) got 9 armour while SM's Captain can goes up to 10 (with a standard sm armour, not even a terminator one, but terminator armor give invulnerable damage reduction so..)
Though the monolith can go up to armour 10, it's interesting.


I think the armor system will pose many balance problems.
I agree, it would probably work better if infantry armor and vehicle armor were different, and weapons had anti infantry and anti infantry vehicle stats (like in Panzer General/Panzer Corps). Armageddon 40K also went with a single stat and it was a big mess.
However, it is unlikely to change in the near future :(

Re: Dreadnoughts need more armor

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:55 pm
by ErissN6
1.09 beta:
"* Melta Bomb and Tankbusta Bomb can now only target Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Fortifications."
Are dreadnoughts vehicle? (or monsters?): IIRC in DoW video an ork rushes and sticks a tankbusta bomb to a dreadnought, which is then destroyed in flying pieces.