The Rally Point (discussion, questions and some highbrow philosophising)

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by stockwellpete » Wed May 20, 2020 11:51 am

devoncop wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:45 am
Hi Pete.

I see that the Biblical section appears to be back to using regular rather than large sized armies and battlefields . Its a shame from my point of view but as we are using the phenomenal TT Mod I was interested in Paul's (the creator of the mod) comment in the forum that :

"As to the actual points amounts, remember that the TT Mod was not designed purely for tournament play. It has to work for all modes of play that the game offers, and you can use the Custom Battles and Campaign generators to have armies up to 2000 points. In fact an army list needs to have a total points value of at least 2000 (or is it 2500?) otherwise it won't work properly."

Just for info.

Cheers

ian
It is 1600pts for Biblical though, which is the large size in the game, same as for Early Middle Ages. Classical Antiquity, Late Antiquity and the Themed Event use 1200pt armies, which is medium-sized.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by devoncop » Wed May 20, 2020 1:29 pm

Ah....I must not have been reading properly.

That is good news :D

Many thanks and congrats on the recruitment numbers.....mind blowingly good.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by Swuul » Mon May 25, 2020 8:21 am

Man, I wish people would select their armies already :D For example, I am dead last to choose in my division in Early Medieval (even though there are people who last season kicked my butt so hard I didn't know where home is :( ) so it is hard to plan on what armies to put in my selection list. Currently there is a "meta-game" going on, as the players in the later seed slots have to pick armies to their list they think people ahead of them will not pick, which could see some favourite armies going unpicked (as the people in later seeds slots are assuming they will be gone anyway by the time it is their turn).

Would it be possible to consider that in the future people who are seeded to slots 6-10 in a division get one extra day to provide their final lists for army selection? Players in slots 1-5 get quite the advantage currently compared to those getting their armies seeded later, and it doesn't feel entirely justified as the seeding slot is based on total player rating, not on how "good" a player is with armies in a given Era. Some player might be more at home with classical era armies while being less than stellar in early medieval, yet that player is getting their seeding slot based on the average of these (resulting in a "too good" slot in the Era the player more comfortable with, while getting a "too bad" slot in the Era where the player is not that stellar). Perhaps giving players seeded to slots 6-10 could slightly balance the things out?
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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by General Shapur » Mon May 25, 2020 8:29 am

Swuul wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:21 am
Man, I wish people would select their armies already :D For example, I am dead last to choose in my division in Early Medieval (even though there are people who last season kicked my butt so hard I didn't know where home is :( ) so it is hard to plan on what armies to put in my selection list. Currently there is a "meta-game" going on, as the players in the later seed slots have to pick armies to their list they think people ahead of them will not pick, which could see some favourite armies going unpicked (as the people in later seeds slots are assuming they will be gone anyway by the time it is their turn).

Would it be possible to consider that in the future people who are seeded to slots 6-10 in a division get one extra day to provide their final lists for army selection? Players in slots 1-5 get quite the advantage currently compared to those getting their armies seeded later, and it doesn't feel entirely justified as the seeding slot is based on total player rating, not on how "good" a player is with armies in a given Era. Some player might be more at home with classical era armies while being less than stellar in early medieval, yet that player is getting their seeding slot based on the average of these (resulting in a "too good" slot in the Era the player more comfortable with, while getting a "too bad" slot in the Era where the player is not that stellar). Perhaps giving players seeded to slots 6-10 could slightly balance the things out?
I struggled to pick a selection this season for EM; seems many selections are either all heavy foot or all medium foot or horse heavy - not many well balanced armies left to pick from. Lat season I ended up with a few secondary or final picks and had given them little thought. This time I want to be happy with whatever comes up. Seeing the other players picks does make you adjust selections. If it were possible to keep the whole thing blind that would be more fair
Look back over the past, with its changing empires that rose and fell, and you can foresee the future, too. M.A.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by stockwellpete » Mon May 25, 2020 8:32 am

Swuul wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:21 am
Would it be possible to consider that in the future people who are seeded to slots 6-10 in a division get one extra day to provide their final lists for army selection?
I have considered it. Answer - nah! :lol: Just pick 4 armies you enjoy using that you think can cope with most terrain types and the various army categories. :wink:

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by Swuul » Mon May 25, 2020 8:44 am

stockwellpete wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:32 am
Just pick 4 armies you enjoy using that you think can cope with most terrain types and the various army categories. :wink:
That "enjoy using" is the part I am refering to :) For example I enjoy from the Early Medieval Arab armies, Viking armies, Indian armies, Byzantine armies, and oh yes, the Dailami army too. That is about 20 armies in all (because there are several variations of arabs, vikikngs etc), and they are very likely all gone when it is time to assign an army to me at slot 10. So I put on my list the British army (because who in their right mind would choose that to a competive scene), as I have played them once in singleplayer and thus at least know what kind of units they have (they have lots of poop quality defensive spearmen, if somebody is interested).

However, I do understand the administrative burden which would follow from altering the system. Even this system will be quite the administrative work for you Pete, so even though I am complaining (I like to complain) I am grateful for your work :)
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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by stockwellpete » Mon May 25, 2020 8:45 am

General Shapur wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:29 am
I struggled to pick a selection this season for EM; seems many selections are either all heavy foot or all medium foot or horse heavy - not many well balanced armies left to pick from. Lat season I ended up with a few secondary or final picks and had given them little thought. This time I want to be happy with whatever comes up. Seeing the other players picks does make you adjust selections. If it were possible to keep the whole thing blind that would be more fair
Not possible though, is it? If I did not put down the order of army allocation then players would go to the latest FOG2DL ratings and work things out for themselves from there. The next step would be to have no recruitment threads and ask players to apply to me individually. I am not going to do that.

So my message is - stop worrying about your competitor's armies and, instead, pick 4 armies that you enjoy using that cope reasonably well with the various terrain and army types you are likely to encounter in that particular section of the tournament. :wink:

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by General Shapur » Mon May 25, 2020 8:50 am

stockwellpete wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:45 am
General Shapur wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:29 am
I struggled to pick a selection this season for EM; seems many selections are either all heavy foot or all medium foot or horse heavy - not many well balanced armies left to pick from. Lat season I ended up with a few secondary or final picks and had given them little thought. This time I want to be happy with whatever comes up. Seeing the other players picks does make you adjust selections. If it were possible to keep the whole thing blind that would be more fair
Not possible though, is it? If I did not put down the order of army allocation then players would go to the latest FOG2DL ratings and work things out for themselves from there. The next step would be to have no recruitment threads and ask players to apply to me individually. I am not going to do that.

So my message is - stop worrying about your competitor's armies and, instead, pick 4 armies that you enjoy using that cope reasonably well with the various terrain and army types you are likely to encounter in that particular section of the tournament. :wink:

Yep, end of the day, this time thats what i did - made sure i'd be happy with whatever i got to play. I guess, too, the pre game positioning is, in itself, part of the fun.
Look back over the past, with its changing empires that rose and fell, and you can foresee the future, too. M.A.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by MikeMarchant » Mon May 25, 2020 8:57 am

For my part, I take no notice of amry ratings at all and don't look at what other people have picked. I just pick armies that I like playing with and then mix that up with things I haven't played with before but look interesting. You can probably tell by my general lack of success. I usually pick my armies very early on, but this season I've been so busy with some database work I didn't get round to it until very late.

I play for fun, because I (mostly) enjoy the game and meet some great people. Of course I also like to win, but that's not the important part. I do accept that there are people who play a lot more cometitively than me, and that's fine. No problem with that. The game is better with a mix of all sorts.


Best Wishes

Mike

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by devoncop » Mon May 25, 2020 8:58 am

Swuul wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:44 am
stockwellpete wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:32 am
Just pick 4 armies you enjoy using that you think can cope with most terrain types and the various army categories. :wink:
That "enjoy using" is the part I am refering to :) For example I enjoy from the Early Medieval Arab armies, Viking armies, Indian armies, Byzantine armies, and oh yes, the Dailami army too. That is about 20 armies in all (because there are several variations of arabs, vikikngs etc), and they are very likely all gone when it is time to assign an army to me at slot 10. So I put on my list the British army (because who in their right mind would choose that to a competive scene), as I have played them once in singleplayer and thus at least know what kind of units they have (they have lots of poop quality defensive spearmen, if somebody is interested).

However, I do understand the administrative burden which would follow from altering the system. Even this system will be quite the administrative work for you Pete, so even though I am complaining (I like to complain) I am grateful for your work :)

I feel your pain Swuul :)

As one of the weaker players who specialised in mediocre finishing places in Division B for the last few seasons, I was used to getting a second or third pick.....No longer ....increased players have seen me pushed into Div C in Early Medieval and Classical and now have picks 9 and 7 ! :cry:

We will be facing each other with some barrel scrapings of armies I think but it will be fun 🙏🙏🙏🙏

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by Swuul » Mon May 25, 2020 11:11 am

Pete, how pissed off would you be if I removed my army selection choices from Early Medieval? As per the PM you sent to us, anybody who hasn't sent a list of army choices by the end of Wednesday have to choose from whatever is left. So with slot 10 assigned to me it would open up quite a bit more choices for me, wouldn't it? :o

Ie, isn't there a danger of abuse if a player who has been assigned a late slot refuses to provide a list of prefered armies? Wouldn't it be better (and easier for you) if you arbitrarily or randomly picked the army for slackers who refuse to send in a list of armies in due time?
There are three kinds of people, those who can count and those who can't.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by stockwellpete » Mon May 25, 2020 11:15 am

Swuul wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:11 am
Pete, how pissed off would you be if I removed my army selection choices from Early Medieval? As per the PM you sent to us, anybody who hasn't sent a list of army choices by the end of Wednesday have to choose from whatever is left. So with slot 10 assigned to me it would open up quite a bit more choices for me, wouldn't it? :o

Ie, isn't there a danger of abuse if a player who has been assigned a late slot refuses to provide a list of prefered armies? Wouldn't it be better (and easier for you) if you arbitrarily or randomly picked the army for slackers who refuse to send in a list of armies in due time?
No, you cannot do that. You can change them but you must have 4 choices. It's all getting too Machiavellian for me. There is no-one so far deliberately not choosing armies to try and get a marginal advantage. Just choose 4 armies please, chaps. :wink:

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by Swuul » Mon May 25, 2020 11:26 am

stockwellpete wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:15 am
It's all getting too Machiavellian for me. There is no-one so far deliberately not choosing armies to try and get a marginal advantage.
Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean everybody is not trying to get me :p
For me it is not so much for getting an advantage, but to get an army I would be somewhat comfortable with and which I would have fun to play with :) The game has so many armies which I have never even tried out, but I already know many of them are too confusing for me to have fun with while playing :oops:
There are three kinds of people, those who can count and those who can't.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by stockwellpete » Mon May 25, 2020 11:38 am

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Psychiatrist required. For overwrought, hardcore FOG2 players. Apply within. Terms negotiable.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by MikeMarchant » Mon May 25, 2020 11:50 am

stockwellpete wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:38 am
--------------------------ADVERTISEMENT-------------------------------

Psychiatrist required. For overwrought, hardcore FOG2 players. Apply within. Terms negotiable.
Brilliant!


Best Wishes

Mike

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm

I put a fair amount of thought into what armies look good, but I don't bother looking at other peoples' choices, or my chance to get my chosen list, or whatever. Worst case scenario, I get trashed this season, and I'm more likely to get my first choices the next season! And I will say, my best section last season was Late Antiquity, and I believe the army I used for that was my third choice.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by nyczar » Thu May 28, 2020 4:03 pm

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm
I put a fair amount of thought into what armies look good, but I don't bother looking at other peoples' choices, or my chance to get my chosen list, or whatever. Worst case scenario, I get trashed this season, and I'm more likely to get my first choices the next season! And I will say, my best section last season was Late Antiquity, and I believe the army I used for that was my third choice.
I used to casually look at other peoples choices when there were no allies, but never in a hard core way and it was more about the people with a choice just in front of me so I perhaps wound't waste my first choice. Now with the allies added in I might look at people's choices for new combo ideas but it is way to complicated for me now to try to plot my list selections relative to others. I just find lists I am confident in playing and that will be fun and competitive given anachronistic match ups.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by Macedonczyk » Fri May 29, 2020 2:52 am

I got 4 choice in EM but somehow strange I'm satisfied. It's gonna be harder but a cooler army.

Maybe solution is to send army choices to Pete with PM so nobody know what others select.

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by stockwellpete » Fri May 29, 2020 6:19 am

Macedonczyk wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:52 am
I got 4 choice in EM but somehow strange I'm satisfied. It's gonna be harder but a cooler army.

Maybe solution is to send army choices to Pete with PM so nobody know what others select.
I'm afraid that wouldn't work very well, not least because the PM system only allows you to keep a certain number of messages. Players would be sending me revised choices and I would get into a terrible mess very quickly. It has to stay as an open process in a tournament this size. :wink:

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Re: The Rally Point (discussion and questions)

Post by paulmcneil » Fri May 29, 2020 6:26 am

Macedonczyk wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:52 am
I got 4 choice in EM but somehow strange I'm satisfied. It's gonna be harder but a cooler army.

Maybe solution is to send army choices to Pete with PM so nobody know what others select.
I don't take any notice of what other people post, I just make choices for armies with plenty of crash-bang-wallop to them, BUT, this is would be an interesting way of doing it.
Paul McNeil

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