Question on units inside cities

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lordhoff
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Question on units inside cities

Post by lordhoff » Fri May 17, 2019 5:31 am

Do these units factor into city defense? What if they are being reformed or are in training? Apparently ships are protected if inside a port but I think that is only because ports can't be attacked. My observations lead me to believe that those inside a city contribute nothing.

Morbio
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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by Morbio » Fri May 17, 2019 12:03 pm

My understanding is that if they are being trained in a city then they contribute nothing, which seems a little extreme to me, as the men are there with their equipment and I'm sure they wouldn't site in their barracks or sit in the training arena doing nothing as the walls are being stormed.

If a unit is based in the city, but isn't being trained, then it adds to the defence and it gets a bonus based on the level of the city's defences.

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by lordhoff » Sat May 18, 2019 3:13 am

Morbio wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:03 pm
My understanding is that if they are being trained in a city then they contribute nothing, which seems a little extreme to me, as the men are there with their equipment and I'm sure they wouldn't site in their barracks or sit in the training arena doing nothing as the walls are being stormed.

If a unit is based in the city, but isn't being trained, then it adds to the defense and it gets a bonus based on the level of the city's defenses.
Now that brings up funny images in my brain. An army taking a test while the city walls are attacked then handing in their papers while the roof collapses in their class room. Yeah, I agree and if I knew how to make mods I'd likely change that but one has to play within the rules. I just don't put anyone inside a city in a place likely to be attacked since I suspected what you said after losing a few trainee units.

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by dejvid2 » Sat May 18, 2019 4:39 pm

lordhoff wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:13 am
Morbio wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:03 pm
My understanding is that if they are being trained in a city then they contribute nothing, which seems a little extreme to me, as the men are there with their equipment and I'm sure they wouldn't site in their barracks or sit in the training arena doing nothing as the walls are being stormed.

If a unit is based in the city, but isn't being trained, then it adds to the defense and it gets a bonus based on the level of the city's defenses.
Now that brings up funny images in my brain. An army taking a test while the city walls are attacked then handing in their papers while the roof collapses in their class room. Yeah, I agree and if I knew how to make mods I'd likely change that but one has to play within the rules. I just don't put anyone inside a city in a place likely to be attacked since I suspected what you said after losing a few trainee units.

I like the rule as it is. It means you have to weigh the risk that the city might be attacked against the long term benefit of the upgrade.
And in the real world - effective retraining requires troops be taken out of action.

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by lordhoff » Sun May 19, 2019 2:24 am

dejvid2 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:39 pm
lordhoff wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:13 am
Morbio wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:03 pm
My understanding is that if they are being trained in a city then they contribute nothing, which seems a little extreme to me, as the men are there with their equipment and I'm sure they wouldn't site in their barracks or sit in the training arena doing nothing as the walls are being stormed.

If a unit is based in the city, but isn't being trained, then it adds to the defense and it gets a bonus based on the level of the city's defenses.
Now that brings up funny images in my brain. An army taking a test while the city walls are attacked then handing in their papers while the roof collapses in their class room. Yeah, I agree and if I knew how to make mods I'd likely change that but one has to play within the rules. I just don't put anyone inside a city in a place likely to be attacked since I suspected what you said after losing a few trainee units.

I like the rule as it is. It means you have to weigh the risk that the city might be attacked against the long term benefit of the upgrade.
And in the real world - effective retraining requires troops be taken out of action.
When I was in the USAF, we constantly trained and were totally ready for action at the same time.

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by Morbio » Sun May 19, 2019 9:04 am

dejvid2 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:39 pm
lordhoff wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:13 am
Morbio wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:03 pm
My understanding is that if they are being trained in a city then they contribute nothing, which seems a little extreme to me, as the men are there with their equipment and I'm sure they wouldn't site in their barracks or sit in the training arena doing nothing as the walls are being stormed.

If a unit is based in the city, but isn't being trained, then it adds to the defense and it gets a bonus based on the level of the city's defenses.
Now that brings up funny images in my brain. An army taking a test while the city walls are attacked then handing in their papers while the roof collapses in their class room. Yeah, I agree and if I knew how to make mods I'd likely change that but one has to play within the rules. I just don't put anyone inside a city in a place likely to be attacked since I suspected what you said after losing a few trainee units.

I like the rule as it is. It means you have to weigh the risk that the city might be attacked against the long term benefit of the upgrade.
And in the real world - effective retraining requires troops be taken out of action.
I agree that they would be taken out of action and in the modern world I can conceive that they may not have all their equipment in their training location, so they may have limited effectiveness. But in the ancient world they would have their sword, shield armour, etc. with them and to think that they would sit and do nothing as the walls are being stormed seems farcical.

lordhoff
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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by lordhoff » Mon May 20, 2019 3:04 am

Morbio wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:04 am
dejvid2 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:39 pm
lordhoff wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:13 am


Now that brings up funny images in my brain. An army taking a test while the city walls are attacked then handing in their papers while the roof collapses in their class room. Yeah, I agree and if I knew how to make mods I'd likely change that but one has to play within the rules. I just don't put anyone inside a city in a place likely to be attacked since I suspected what you said after losing a few trainee units.

I like the rule as it is. It means you have to weigh the risk that the city might be attacked against the long term benefit of the upgrade.
And in the real world - effective retraining requires troops be taken out of action.
I agree that they would be taken out of action and in the modern world I can conceive that they may not have all their equipment in their training location, so they may have limited effectiveness. But in the ancient world they would have their sword, shield armour, etc. with them and to think that they would sit and do nothing as the walls are being stormed seems farcical.
Even in the modern world, they have all they need right there and are ready to fight, well, most of the time. Specialized training was done in small groups - those would be gone off somewhere but the vast majority stayed behind. When a whole unit needed to adapt to new tactics, they trained in place and it was up to the commander if they stayed with the old or he thought they were ready for the new if some contingency came up. True, I'm dated. I retired from the USAF some 20 years ago but I couldn't imagine it being any different.

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by pavelk » Mon May 20, 2019 1:00 pm

I agree with you lordhoff. You have a point.

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by Morbio » Tue May 21, 2019 12:53 pm

A reasonable compromise might be to allow armies being trained to defend the city, but not to allow them to complete any training if they are attacked or if there is an enemy adjacent to the city. I can't see any training happening if the city has an army camped outside or if one is storming the walls!

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by pavelk » Tue May 21, 2019 12:54 pm

Very good idea Morbio! I like that

lordhoff
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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by lordhoff » Wed May 22, 2019 4:14 am

How would that work? Training is delayed? Defense value added to city defense value? Unit comes outside the walls and is attacked prior to the city being attacked? I'm not sure if a unit that is ordered into a city even defends the city currently (one that is doing nothing - no training, etc). I see how to do move a unit into the city and sometimes the game does it for you (if you are fully stacked and a unit completes training, etc) but it seemed mainly a way to allow and extra unit in the stack.

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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by Morbio » Wed May 22, 2019 11:42 am

If a unit is in the city and doing nothing, then it defends the city, the animation will show the unit fighting if the city is attacked and I believe the cities defence rating adds bonuses to the defender. If the unit is training then it doesn't defend the city and the animation is merely the city being attacked and the attacker's offensive rating is compared against the city's alone to determine the result.

My view is that training would be delayed, either...
* that turn would not be counted for training purposes, e.g. A unit has completed 1 turn of elite (2 turn) training and the city is attacked on the second turn. The unit defends the city and so doesn't complete turn 2, so there is still 1 turn of training to complete.
or...
* the training completed is reset, e.g. A unit has completed 1 turn of elite (2 turn) training and the city is attacked on the second turn. The unit defends the city and so training completed is reset to zero and so there is now 2 turns of training to complete.

On balance, I prefer the 2nd option as many of the defenders would have died or been wounded, so the unit would have to be rebuilt and the training repeated for the new members.

lordhoff
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Re: Question on units inside cities

Post by lordhoff » Wed May 22, 2019 10:33 pm

Either would work and thank you for clearing up the unit in a city (basically, a garrison). I've generally just left them on top to garrison so I've never seen the animations you mentioned.

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