New Kingdom Egyptian

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ravenflight
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New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ravenflight » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:20 am

Hi all,

I've always had a soft spot for NKE's but have never built it.

With the changes in the rules it seems they are better, but are they better enough, or at least viable?

My thoughts are that the Chariots are their strong suit. If you take nearly all the chariots (24 bases, 6BG's of 4) @ 432 points, a minimum ofthe foot, so that you can throw them into the rough terrain and use the rest of the points on Sherdans and skirmishers... I think there is a reasonable chance that they can do some hurt.

What are other people's opinion? I think the VMD is reallu going to hamper the NKE chariots as they will rarely be a solid wall of chariot archers, but that would depend a lot on the enemy I guess. The chariots will be outshot by foot bows, so will superiority be enough? Of course the advantage (IMHO) of light chariotry is that they can charge or evade whereas cavalry really have to make up their mind at the start.

Hmm, any other considerations?

DrQuahog
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by DrQuahog » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:45 pm

I like them too, but, sadly, they are just a poor army.
And giving them that silly special interpenetration rule is just a poke in the eye.
Yes, they always should have had the evade capablility, and its useful against infantry and cav froma distance, but they don't move fast enough to use it much against mounted. Enemy mounted comes in three flavors- those that can out shoot you, those that can outfight you, and those that can do both.

I can name a whole lot of people you really dont want to face. Can you name any that would really make you smile?
Obviously they do better in period, but the better Chariot book armies all have some hopefully battle winning troops and some punch.

If the army is going to work presumably some combo of the cheapness of lt spear - giving numbers and points for lights, plus chariot support, would be the best shot.

ravenflight
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ravenflight » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:33 pm

DrQuahog wrote:I can name a whole lot of people you really dont want to face. Can you name any that would really make you smile?
Interesting way of looking at it, and I've never quite looked at army selection quite like that. Pick your army then say 'right, if I came up against 'x' I'd be happy because... If I came up against 'y' I'd be sad because, and would have to watch out and do 'z'.

My usual method of army selection is 'wow it will look nice, now how do i make it work?'

I suppose I COULD look at an army and say 'wow this will work well, now how do I make it look nice?'

Trouble is I don't like to join the mob. I like to have something a little unusual. Lotsa armies outthere I guess.

:/

grahambriggs
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by grahambriggs » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:39 pm

I think there's a good army in there waiting to get out. It'll need a deft hand. The chariots and bowmen are great if they can stretch the enemy out, weak if they have to fight in a constricted area. e.g. 4 chariots will often beat 4 cavalry as they shoot twice as well and get twice as many dice in melee. But don't expect them to win facing 8 bases of cavalry. The ability to fall back 2MU helps as well.

I think as you say you probably want hard charging barbarians in the mix so that the enemy can't just deploy wide and push you off of the table.

hazelbark
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by hazelbark » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:23 pm

Grahams makes good points.

I think in general people underestimate chariots of all kinds. They aren't familiar with them and assume them to be weaker than they are.

I am a firm believer that a chariot army in an open tournament needs an FC for a flank march.

The bow light spear units which the NKE don't get are very good.

I do believe the list writer hobbled this army to keep Dave M away from FOG. :lol:

If you can tempt one Ghilman into a fight with a chariot that is usually bad for Ghilman even in Melee.

There is now a good open event chariot army in one of the lists. Not sure NKE are it.

ethan
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ethan » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:00 pm

NKE have the problem of not having anything quite threatening enough. I think to make a chariot army work you need something that will legitimately attract a lot of enemy attention or do damage.

DrQuahog
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by DrQuahog » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:01 am

ravenflight wrote: My usual method of army selection is 'wow it will look nice, now how do i make it work?'
I suppose I COULD look at an army and say 'wow this will work well, now how do I make it look nice?'
Trouble is I don't like to join the mob. I like to have something a little unusual. Lotsa armies outthere I guess.
:/
Its the eternal question. As someone who has brought quite a few new players into this hobby, I have always stated that there are 4 criteria for choosing an army-
1) Do you want to paint it?
2) Do you want to play it?
3) Does it have historical interest for you?
4) Will it win games?

The individual has to balance how he feels about these four, no right or wrong answer.
But you really do want to avoid situations where before you set up you realize you have zero chance.

gozerius
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by gozerius » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:31 pm

So why am I painting an army of nothing but undrilled, protected, defensive spear, LH archers, and protected cav? Because no one else would dare bring it to the table.
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DrQuahog
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by DrQuahog » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:44 am

gozerius wrote:So why am I painting an army of nothing but undrilled, protected, defensive spear, LH archers, and protected cav? Because no one else would dare bring it to the table.
Replace the spear with some barbarian trash av protected impact foot and you have my Attila army.

ShrubMiK
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ShrubMiK » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:14 pm

And mine. With the added benefit of my warband being poor quality for added...ummm...excitement.

batesmotel
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by batesmotel » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:05 pm

ethan wrote:NKE have the problem of not having anything quite threatening enough. I think to make a chariot army work you need something that will legitimately attract a lot of enemy attention or do damage.
In period, the Sea People impact foot may well be able to serve as that threat for the NKE. Not much other infantry will want to face them.

Chris
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ethan
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ethan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:19 pm

batesmotel wrote:
ethan wrote:NKE have the problem of not having anything quite threatening enough. I think to make a chariot army work you need something that will legitimately attract a lot of enemy attention or do damage.
In period, the Sea People impact foot may well be able to serve as that threat for the NKE. Not much other infantry will want to face them.

Chris
Possibly. The trouble is that "in period" you have the Hittites who should just load up on heavy chariots and crush everything else they face "in period."

DrQuahog
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by DrQuahog » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:51 am

batesmotel wrote: In period, the Sea People impact foot may well be able to serve as that threat for the NKE. Not much other infantry will want to face them.

Chris
This is true, Chris,and a good point.
A large Sea Peoples contingent, backed up by Egyptian archers and chariots, might be a very viable option in this period. Unless you run into Sea Peoples. :shock:

However, as a solution to the query 'Ive always had a soft spot for NK Egyptians, how can i make them work in v2?'
The answer 'Simple, the NKE list can work, just don't bring those useless Egyptians' may not be entirely satisfactory. 8)

batesmotel
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by batesmotel » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:33 pm

DrQuahog wrote:
batesmotel wrote: In period, the Sea People impact foot may well be able to serve as that threat for the NKE. Not much other infantry will want to face them.

Chris
This is true, Chris,and a good point.
A large Sea Peoples contingent, backed up by Egyptian archers and chariots, might be a very viable option in this period. Unless you run into Sea Peoples. :shock:

However, as a solution to the query 'Ive always had a soft spot for NK Egyptians, how can i make them work in v2?'
The answer 'Simple, the NKE list can work, just don't bring those useless Egyptians' may not be entirely satisfactory. 8)
The recommendation isn't to leave the Egyptians home, just bring enough Sea People to concentrate your opponent's attention. Without good chariots of their own, a Sea People army is likely to be vulnerable to Egyptian chariots.

Chris
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ethan
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ethan » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:21 pm

batesmotel wrote: The recommendation isn't to leave the Egyptians home, just bring enough Sea People to concentrate your opponent's attention. Without good chariots of their own, a Sea People army is likely to be vulnerable to Egyptian chariots.

Chris
Actually not really. The Egyptian chariots are going to fight all the Sea People impact foot on evens in impact and melee. Light Chariots have a very hard time generating meanginful combat advantages...

DrQuahog
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by DrQuahog » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:22 am

I really wasnt trying to be that profound about the merits of Egyptian finesse vis a vis Sea Peoples mindless brutality.

All I meant was that if a NKE army maximised Sea peoples (and they can bring a LOT of Sea Peoples) , true their impact foot would do well against most in period enemies, but not against the much better Sup Armoured Sea Peoples themselves.

philqw78
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by philqw78 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:05 am

ethan wrote:Actually not really. The Egyptian chariots are going to fight all the Sea People impact foot on evens in impact and melee.
Really?
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

ShrubMiK
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ShrubMiK » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:22 am

Did they forget their bows today?

ethan
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ethan » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:29 pm

philqw78 wrote:
ethan wrote:Actually not really. The Egyptian chariots are going to fight all the Sea People impact foot on evens in impact and melee.
Really?
Worse than that actually I suppose. Sea Peoples are MF Impact Foot/Swords. In impact the chariots get +PoA for mounted vs. MF, the Sea Peoples get +PoA for Impact foot so net even. In melee the the Egyptian chariots are at a -PoA vs. Swords.

Sure the Egyptians might do some damage in shooting, but are not in good shape in close combat. LCh probably need a PoA against MF/LH/LF in melee.

ravenflight
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Re: New Kingdom Egyptian

Post by ravenflight » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:18 am

ShrubMiK wrote:Did they forget their bows today?
I can't see how bows can make that big an impact. There is a fairly low chance of a test. Then there is a reasonably good chance of PASSING the test. If they don't is disrupted good enough to 'go in'?

They would Even factors, less dice BUT are affected by a negative result (casualties wise) less than the Chariots.

I think you would have to risk it, but boy it would be exactly that - a risk.

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