Medieval Welsh and Scottish.

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Quintus
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Medieval Welsh and Scottish.

Post by Quintus » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:41 am

Can anyone give me their assessment of the effectiveness of the Medieval Welsh Army, in particular their spearmen?

Is it a case of they make great auxiliaries but weak as an army in themselves or can they be a force to be reckoned with on their own account? Is there fun to be had with a Welsh Army?

The Scottish Common Army interest me too. There is quite a commitment to painting lots of figures for a shieldwall/phalanx so it would be nice to know whether or not this army is a bit "one dimensional" (and thus battles being a bit stereotyped) even with Highland and French allies?

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Re: Medieval Welsh and Scottish.

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:54 am

Quintus wrote:Can anyone give me their assessment of the effectiveness of the Medieval Welsh Army, in particular their spearmen?
The spearmen are weak but numerous. The army as a whole (if you are referring to the Owain Glyndwr revolt army) can be surprisingly effective if you can bring its numbers to bear.
Is there fun to be had with a Welsh Army?
Certainly, but it is not an army for beginners.
The Scottish Common Army interest me too. There is quite a commitment to painting lots of figures for a shieldwall/phalanx so it would be nice to know whether or not this army is a bit "one dimensional" (and thus battles being a bit stereotyped) even with Highland and French allies?
It is certainly a bit one dimensional, but quite effective. It depends what floats your boat I guess.

Quintus
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Post by Quintus » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:31 am

A prompt reply, and from the rule-writer himself. :)

Many thanks.

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Post by dave_r » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:01 pm

The Scottish Common Army interest me too. There is quite a commitment to painting lots of figures for a shieldwall/phalanx so it would be nice to know whether or not this army is a bit "one dimensional" (and thus battles being a bit stereotyped) even with Highland and French allies?
Having recently used the Medieval Scots 8) army at Burton it is fairly one dimensional - a lack of any light troops can be an issue. But overall it is a fairly interesting army to use.

I Initially thought the army would be fairly boring - spearwall, march forward, repeat... but since normally you have to be fairly reactive, then you are always attempting to re-deploy the half of your army which your opponent doesn't attack (unless they attack along the line which is normally a bad move)

The Longbowmen add a bit of spice and you can always go for the Froggy allies which can add a bit of interest. It can be quite a challenge at 800 pts to use effectively, but it is possible.

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Post by neilhammond » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:24 pm

I've fought against 2 Medieval Scots in comps and lost both times (both armies went on to do well in the comp). However, I've now got a feel for their vulnerabilities and have anti-Medieval Scots strategies worked out.

Of course, these stategems may prove to be completely ineffective...

Quintus
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Post by Quintus » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:41 pm

Choosing armies is such a pain and such a pleasure. Quite often you really like an army even though you know they aren't all that brilliant. :)

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Post by list_lurker » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:10 pm

For what its worth, I think its is pretty good in period. The medium foot spearmen give you an advantage in terrain. I've found MF Off Spear suprisingly good (while they are winning!)

Big groups (10's), with support with a IC (Glyndwr ?) floating around. Your opponent will have to attrit you to death.

Just don't expect to resist a Knightly charge for long!

Quintus
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Post by Quintus » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:49 am

Will the list for the earlier Medieval Welsh differ very much from the Later Medieval one? (It would be nice to have figures that would do for both.)

What Companion Book can we expect it to appear in?

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Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:53 am

Quintus wrote:Will the list for the earlier Medieval Welsh differ very much from the Later Medieval one?
I expect so.
What Companion Book can we expect it to appear in?
Feudal Europe.

There is also an Early Welsh list in the Drak Age book.

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Post by list_lurker » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:05 pm

Drak Age book.
fighting the ISA I hope?

hammy
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Post by hammy » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:05 pm

The later medieval Welsh army is essentially a border marcher army rather than a development of the older Welsh armies. There were no Welsh armies for about 100 years prior to the revolt of Owain Glyndwr.

In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.

One of these days I will actually put the army on the table. I really should I suppose.

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Post by hazelbark » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:28 pm

hammy wrote: In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
I noticed you got your fantasy Welsh into the FOG list!
:wink: :twisted:

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Post by hammy » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:36 pm

hazelbark wrote:
hammy wrote: In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
I noticed you got your fantasy Welsh into the FOG list!
:wink: :twisted:
I had to write it to get it there :shock:

Seriously though the DBM list is trying to get an 11th or 12th century Welsh army and assume it didn't change significantly by the 15th. I would like to think the list in Storm of Arrows is a good stab at the forces available to Owain.

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Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:17 pm

hazelbark wrote:
hammy wrote: In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
I noticed you got your fantasy Welsh into the FOG list!
:wink: :twisted:
As has been said before, the fantasy element of the DBM list is not the French allies. They really existed. (And would have fought too if Owain wasn't an Inert general. Oops, sorry, wrong rules).

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Post by nikgaukroger » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:10 am

Yup, the fantasy element is the continued existance of differentiated South and North Welsh - or even the existance of both.

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Post by hazelbark » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:06 pm

rbodleyscott wrote: As has been said before, the fantasy element of the DBM list is not the French allies. They really existed. (And would have fought too if Owain wasn't an Inert general. Oops, sorry, wrong rules).
Wrong. The fantasy is we keep getting to call Hammy's Welsh the fantasy welsh, because he charges the red cape with certainty just as if you told the Greeks that Macedonians aren't....


:twisted: :D

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Post by hammy » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:13 pm

hazelbark wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote: As has been said before, the fantasy element of the DBM list is not the French allies. They really existed. (And would have fought too if Owain wasn't an Inert general. Oops, sorry, wrong rules).
Wrong. The fantasy is we keep getting to call Hammy's Welsh the fantasy welsh, because he charges the red cape with certainty just as if you told the Greeks that Macedonians aren't....


:twisted: :D
Quite possibly :oops: I would be the first to admit there are issues with the DBM list and that I took advantage of them. I would like to think that the FoG Welsh list is far more plausible for an army of the revolt.

I have yet to try it on the table but that might change tomorrow :P

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