Poor Troops

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ethan
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Poor Troops

Post by ethan » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:59 pm

Compared to some other rules sets (coughDBMcough) masses of Poor troops seem less useful in FoG. Anyone have any thoughts on when they are worthwhile?

I have toyed with teh idea of taking LF, slingers, poor from teh Seleucid list (@2AP per stand) as that is pretty cheap and they can probably run away.

Mob can be used for bulk, but that seems less helpful than it might be.

How about things like the poor MF archers Seleucid and various levy European types? poor LH? poor HI of any sort?

caliban66
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Post by caliban66 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:26 pm

I use four poor LF javelinmen in my EAP. Why? For eight points I raise to 13 my BG number, which means at least one more BG to break before I loose a game (considering only attrition points due to broken BG). I still need two bases lost for an autobreak, and I try not to engage with them: only float around here and there, and in order to protect my important cavalry BG from shooting. If someone has to become cannon fodder, better those poor and naked javelinmen rather than my `gorgeus´ achaemenid cavalry. And only for 8 pts!

Kineas1
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Post by Kineas1 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:32 pm

It does seem that you get what you pay for. I keep looking at the poor slingers on the Bosphoron list. Hmmm.

shall
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Post by shall » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:37 pm

Poor LF useful padding and delayers

Poor spears or pikes are actually pretty handy in big BGs

Si

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Post by hammy » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:02 pm

I have seen a hoplite army with five BGs of poor javelinmen. They are fine to advance infront of the spears lob javelins and then evade.

Poor close combat troops can be an embarasment though. I had three BGs of poor defensive spear ridden down in turn by one BG of knights. Every time it was rerolling a 6 resulting in a miss that made me lose a combat :(

They are cheap though. A BG of 8 poor protected defensive spear for 32 points is really rather cheap.

There was the very embarassing moment when my Roman equites broke through the Sassanids and threw themselves ito the mob only to fail to disrupt them at impact, lose the melee then break off back towards the reception committee on the way back from the main line of battle.

rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:27 pm

Blocks of 12 bases of Poor pikes are a super bargain at 48 points each and very strong if used carefully. (i.e. Not against the enemy premium troops).

carlos
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Post by carlos » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:53 pm

In my Dominate Romans I run 4 BGs of 4 Poor Light Horse. Crap? Yes but they are very cheap at 88 points for the whole lot and filler that are very, very hard to kill. Also, even being poor they can run down equal numbers of LF in the open which are a problem for the Dominate romans.

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Post by terrys » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:57 am

I've used 2 blocks of 12 Poor pike rear-supported by 6 poor imitation legionaries in a Pontic army.
(total 120pts). Just throw a general (TC) in the front rank if in combat and they're great value.

I've also used an assyrian with 2 blocks of 8 poor spear/bow foot supported by an 8 base mob (total 72pts). They were great for chasing off enemy cavalry, and I even had the opportunity to sack my opponents baggage with the Mob. I eventually used LF to do it instead - but since I eventually lost the game, I now wish I'd used the Mob - so that I could have claimed some sort of victory.

dave_r
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Post by dave_r » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:15 pm

Given the chances of mob EVER being in a position to sack somebody's camp then I strongly suspect this was a massive missed opportunity...

In fact I even mentioned it at the time :)

I suppose the rear support being able to be provided by poor troops is a big plus. Must admit I haven't tried many poor troops as yet - are Anglo-Norman spearmen going to be poor? (Poor, undrilled, Defensive Spearmen ?)

rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:24 pm

dave_r wrote:I suppose the rear support being able to be provided by poor troops is a big plus. Must admit I haven't tried many poor troops as yet - are Anglo-Norman spearmen going to be poor? (Poor, undrilled, Defensive Spearmen ?)
If so, only as an option, methinks. We haven't got on to the feudal lists yet.

dave_r
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Post by dave_r » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:35 pm

Go on then, I will give you an opportunity to get your five thousandth post....

When you say only as an option, do you mean they will be either average or poor? or just that they won't have a minimum?

rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:13 pm

dave_r wrote:When you say only as an option, do you mean they will be either average or poor? or just that they won't have a minimum?
Well they will certainly have the option to be Average. We may or may not give them the option to be Poor.

5001 posts, where's my prize?

Niceas
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Post by Niceas » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:52 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:Blocks of 12 bases of Poor pikes are a super bargain at 48 points each and very strong if used carefully. (i.e. Not against the enemy premium troops).
Welcome to my Burgundian hell. It will be amusing to see what sort of speed bump they will be to the Swiss.
Robert Sulentic

The only constant in the Universe is change. The wise adapt.

hammy
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Post by hammy » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:03 pm

Niceas wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:Blocks of 12 bases of Poor pikes are a super bargain at 48 points each and very strong if used carefully. (i.e. Not against the enemy premium troops).
Welcome to my Burgundian hell. It will be amusing to see what sort of speed bump they will be to the Swiss.
I have to say that I wouldn't want to have poor pike fight superiors on an equal frontage......

The Swiss should get 58.3% hits to the Burgundian 41.7% :shock:

Niceas
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Post by Niceas » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:10 pm

hammy wrote:
Niceas wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:Blocks of 12 bases of Poor pikes are a super bargain at 48 points each and very strong if used carefully. (i.e. Not against the enemy premium troops).
Welcome to my Burgundian hell. It will be amusing to see what sort of speed bump they will be to the Swiss.
I have to say that I wouldn't want to have poor pike fight superiors on an equal frontage......

The Swiss should get 58.3% hits to the Burgundian 41.7% :shock:
If that was an election night return here in the US, they'd be calling that a 'landslide'.

Trouble is, I think that pike and longbow combination will fare similarly.

At least the outcome will be historical, eh?
Robert Sulentic

The only constant in the Universe is change. The wise adapt.

rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:16 pm

Niceas wrote:
hammy wrote:
Niceas wrote: Welcome to my Burgundian hell. It will be amusing to see what sort of speed bump they will be to the Swiss.
I have to say that I wouldn't want to have poor pike fight superiors on an equal frontage......

The Swiss should get 58.3% hits to the Burgundian 41.7% :shock:
If that was an election night return here in the US, they'd be calling that a 'landslide'.

Trouble is, I think that pike and longbow combination will fare similarly.

At least the outcome will be historical, eh?
Well you can always form up your whole army behind field defences.

Just remember not to send all the troops for a tea break just as the Swiss arrive.

Niceas
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Post by Niceas » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:41 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Niceas wrote:
hammy wrote: I have to say that I wouldn't want to have poor pike fight superiors on an equal frontage......

The Swiss should get 58.3% hits to the Burgundian 41.7% :shock:
If that was an election night return here in the US, they'd be calling that a 'landslide'.

Trouble is, I think that pike and longbow combination will fare similarly.

At least the outcome will be historical, eh?
Well you can always form up your whole army behind field defences.

Just remember not to send all the troops for a tea break just as the Swiss arrive.
Heh. Yes, that would help. But from what I've seen so far, it looks like the Swiss will be quite murderous--and that's a good thing.
Robert Sulentic

The only constant in the Universe is change. The wise adapt.

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