Trouble getting a decent arab list

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Mehrunes
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Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by Mehrunes » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:03 pm

Hi guys,

I tinkered around with various Arab army lists but it seems I can get no good army out of them.
Some time ago I started to paint a Fatimid army and most of the infantry is done.
I once borrowed me some cavalry and got them to a (themed!) tournament where I was thoroughly wipped.
I plan to attend the tournament in Vienna this year and wanted to revive my Arabs for it.

Here is my list that I used that past weekend:

1x TC (CinC)
1x FC
2x TC

2x Abid al-shira [9 bases] HF/LF Prot Av Drilled LS Sw
1x Sariraya [9 bases] HF/LF Prot Av Drilled DefSp
2x Mamluks [4 bases] Cv Arm Sup Drilled Bow Sw
1x Turcomans [4 bases] LH Unprot Av Undrilled Bow Sw
2x Armenian Archers [6 bases] MF Prot Av Drilled Bow
1x Archers [6 bases] LF Unprot Av Drilled Bow
1x Bedouin cavalry [4 bases] LH Unprot Av Undrilled Lancer Sw
2x Arab lancers [4 bases] Cv Arm Sup Drilled Lancer Sw

Apart from that I have figures for Dailami and Lutat macemen.

Perhaps there is a better list in it or I just need advice on how to play an Arab army. I struggle with the infantry which is expensive and not good enough to hold up decent enemy troops.
I never found a target for the expensive lancers, the mamluks never did enough damage for being able to charging in something.

Any hints really appreciated

grahambriggs
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Re: Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by grahambriggs » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:54 pm

First thought looking at the list is that there are a number of different troop types: shooty cav, lance cav, heavy foot, shhoty foot, LH. So it's not surprising that the first few games were a struggle; it takes practice to work out how to co-ordinate all the elements. The upside is when they are all co-ordinated, the army suddenly performs well.

I think the problem with this design is the heavy and medium foot units. MF bow are really better in 8s - otherwise they don't roll enough dice to have an effect.

I don't like taking the LF rear ranks if the HF are protected defensive spear (granted the army list may force you) as the spear are good enough against lancers and as soon as you lose bases you start losing dice. So I'd prefer units of 8 def spear. The Light spear/sword chaps have another problem; they are just too weak in melee against common enemies. HEavy infantry aren't that good when there's nothing they want to fight.

On the other hand though, the HF are drilled and non-shock so should manouver well and not do anything rash. So you may be able to use them to tempt stronger enemy toward you and delay contact for long enough for your mounted to work the flanks.

The one thing you must avoid with this army is getting committed piecemeal against tough enemy combat troops.

Mehrunes
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Re: Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by Mehrunes » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:20 pm

Hi Graham, thanks for your answer.

What you describe is what I experienced with the army. I never felt I had a target for the HF, enemy HF were better, best practice was to let knights charge them and hope the best. Probably not too unhistorical. :)
Sadly I'm forced to take the LF rear ranks in the Fatimid list as in most Arab lists. I could declare the LS, Sw chaps as DefSp, no problem to say these are Berbers instead of Blacks. Surprisingly you can have the option to have all DefSp without LF in the more western lists (Fanatic Berber, Andalusian) even if they are the same people.
I have a couple of Numidian LH who might be accepted as Berber LH, so maybe I should try Fanatic Berber? Perhaps I will post a list...

MF bow in 8s is a good idea, the list was a bit restricted due to the available figures.

Probably it was just the inexperience but I heard others complaining about having hard times with Arab armies. But I like them so much. :D

AlanCutner
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Re: Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by AlanCutner » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:24 pm

I've thoroughly enjoyed using a Seljuk army with Dailami ally, and with fair success. Not arab admittedly, but not far off.

philqw78
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Re: Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by philqw78 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:22 pm

Arab foot suffers due to lack of armour, arab mounted suffer due to knights. They don't do well out of theme
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

grahambriggs
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Re: Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by grahambriggs » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:52 am

The arab and "arab style" armies from the Mahgreb can be a bit of a challenge to use certainly and I find you need a battle plan that has the heavy foot tying down more points of enemy foot while the mounted take out the wings.

The problem often is i think getting the wings to do their thing quickly enough, and getting it all co-ordinated. I've used the Taifa Andalusians a fair bit and they have decent knights to help cut through the enemy.

Mehrunes
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Re: Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by Mehrunes » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:22 pm

I came up with a Fanatic Berber list, what do you think?

1x IC
3x TC

2x LF Bow [6 bases]
1x LF Poor Slingers [8 bases]
6x LH Jav LS [4 bases, one 6 bases]
1x KN Sup, HArm [4 bases]
1x MF Prot, Sup, OffSp [6 bases]
1x MF Unprot, Bow [8 bases]
2x HF Prot, Av, DefSp [8 bases]
1x HF Prot, Sup, DefSp [8 bases]

9/15 BG lights so it should be hard to break the army. I have a decent centre, two terrain troops and one hard-hitter in addition to the lights which should gain superiority over the enemy lights and try to soften up the enemy or lure him to my infantry. What do you think?

grahambriggs
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Re: Trouble getting a decent arab list

Post by grahambriggs » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:00 pm

A single unit of 6 MF is neither use nor ornament, especially shock troops. I'd can it, reduce the 6 base LH down to 4 and buy more HF spears.

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