Elephants are they worth it? uses?

A forum for any questions relating to army design, the army companion books and upcoming lists.

Moderators: hammy, philqw78, terrys, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Moderators, Field of Glory Design

Post Reply
pyrrhus
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:19 am

Elephants are they worth it? uses?

Post by pyrrhus »

my first question is what size bg for the ellies 2 or 4
is 2 too weak? 4 to many points for the benifits ?
what are they good for ?
And finnally are they worth taking ?
thanks for the input.
hammy
Field of Glory Team
Field of Glory Team
Posts: 5440
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: Stockport
Contact:

Post by hammy »

Alas elephants can only be in BGs of 2 bases so your first question is moot.

As to what they are good for, massed elephants are pretty handy as is one BG of elephants between a couple of BG of other solid combat troops such as legionaries or pikes. The -1 to the enemy CT for facing elephants is handy and against a lot of troops elephats fight with reasonable POAs.

Are the worth taking? Well, I am seriously considering taking 12 to the Oxford doubles at 1000 points so I hope so.
hazelbark
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4957
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Capital of the World !!

Post by hazelbark »

Last night my carthagenian cunning plan exploded when a freak die roll of 1 on a base loss saw my elephant explode. I hadn't counted on that. Then everything went worse and the legionaires just thumped me.

Still I think Elephants are quite intriguing. As Hammy suggested they need friends on either side so they don't get overlapped.
pyrrhus
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:19 am

Post by pyrrhus »

So are armys that only have 2 elephants worth taking .sounds like 4 or more are worth it how about only 2
(looking at doing pyrrhic's)
Can they be used with your own cavalry or is that a bad Idea ?(sorry newbie)
bahdahbum
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Posts: 1950
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:40 pm

Post by bahdahbum »

They can be used with your cavalry as only one or two stands will be disordered . You will loose 1 die for 3 . As only the equivalent of max 2 dice are disrodered , you loose nothing except a malus for CMT . ( Only if your cavalry is adjacent to the elephants ) . The ennemy cavalry in contact with your elephants ( 2 stands at least ) will loose one die !
hammy
Field of Glory Team
Field of Glory Team
Posts: 5440
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: Stockport
Contact:

Post by hammy »

2 elephants are fine as long as you have another BG either side of them. What normally kills elephants is overlaps and the best way to prevent overlaps is more BGs.

A single elephant BG in the right place can put a -1 on the CT for two enemy BGs
madmike111
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:20 am
Location: West Aussieland

Post by madmike111 »

I have used a Late Successor 800pt pike army against a Roman army several times now.

I found the biggest weakness of a Successor is the immediate flanks of the pikes (which I always mass in the centre). Elephants are surprisingly effective in tying down the loose ends. I now field 2 BGs, one on each flank of the pikes.
Quintus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:34 pm
Location: Welsh Marches

Post by Quintus »

madmike111 wrote:I have used a Late Successor 800pt pike army against a Roman army several times now.

I found the biggest weakness of a Successor is the immediate flanks of the pikes (which I always mass in the centre). Elephants are surprisingly effective in tying down the loose ends. I now field 2 BGs, one on each flank of the pikes.
Which ties in exactly with Pyrrhus' tactics. :)
Scrumpy
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:27 pm
Location: NoVa

Post by Scrumpy »

Personally I think elephants suck big time. I used Classical Indian twice yesterday, and found they died or broke everytime. Many people think the real danger to an elephant is the odd death roll of 1, but they also can suffer from cmt's caused by the troops around them breaking too, something the Indian army is likely to do it seems.
WhiteKnight
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:08 pm
Location: yeovil somerset

Post by WhiteKnight »

I tend to agree about jumbos and their limitations but the only ones I HAVE had a good result with was....the Indians! I found massing the jumbo BGs together worked pretty well, flanks guarded by big BGs of MF with all three generals handy to lead the jumbos and more MF and Cav giving them rear (at a safe distance....and with shovels for their allotments ) support.

Martin
flameberge
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 264
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:31 am

Post by flameberge »

I think if you go to the AAR section of the Forum and look at the Numidian battle reports 1-5 you can see elephants can come in handy.
Luddite
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:11 pm

Post by Luddite »

1. Elephants on their own are dogmeat.

2. Elephants mixed with cavalry are dogmeat and they stuff up the cavalry.

3. Elephants mixed in with decent foot are vicious.

In a battleline they are very difficult to pop with bowfire and once the fisticuffs kick off, they just seem to stick around, bolstering the line nicely. Also, the -1 CT for losing to elephants is a real killer...really disrupts the opponent's cohesion...
hammy
Field of Glory Team
Field of Glory Team
Posts: 5440
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: Stockport
Contact:

Post by hammy »

Luddite wrote:1. Elephants on their own are dogmeat.

2. Elephants mixed with cavalry are dogmeat and they stuff up the cavalry.

3. Elephants mixed in with decent foot are vicious.

In a battleline they are very difficult to pop with bowfire and once the fisticuffs kick off, they just seem to stick around, bolstering the line nicely. Also, the -1 CT for losing to elephants is a real killer...really disrupts the opponent's cohesion...
I dissagree with point 1, elephants with more elephants aren't too shabby.

On point 2 they don't upset friendly cavalry that much, just don't have elephants either side of your cavalry.

As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
Luddite
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:11 pm

Post by Luddite »

hammy wrote:
Luddite wrote:1. Elephants on their own are dogmeat.

2. Elephants mixed with cavalry are dogmeat and they stuff up the cavalry.

3. Elephants mixed in with decent foot are vicious.

In a battleline they are very difficult to pop with bowfire and once the fisticuffs kick off, they just seem to stick around, bolstering the line nicely. Also, the -1 CT for losing to elephants is a real killer...really disrupts the opponent's cohesion...
I dissagree with point 1, elephants with more elephants aren't too shabby.
Should've been clearer...i really meant an elephant BG on its own...i line of elephants is horrifying to face
... :D

On point 2 they don't upset friendly cavalry that much, just don't have elephants either side of your cavalry.
Just from what we've seen so far on our table top...keeping the nellies away from you own cavalry seems to be a good idea...

As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
Agreed...they really seem to bolser a line, even of dodgy bowmen...just our experience really. My phalanx seems to be able to shift most enemy foot except the elephants...grr...
hazelbark
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4957
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Capital of the World !!

Post by hazelbark »

Scrumpy wrote:Personally I think elephants suck big time. I used Classical Indian twice yesterday, and found they died or broke everytime. Many people think the real danger to an elephant is the odd death roll of 1, but they also can suffer from cmt's caused by the troops around them breaking too, something the Indian army is likely to do it seems.
It could have been operator Error. :wink:
hazelbark
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4957
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Capital of the World !!

Post by hazelbark »

hammy wrote: As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
Dailami are skileld swordsmen! :!:
rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 28007
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Post by rbodleyscott »

hazelbark wrote:
hammy wrote: As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
Dailami are skileld swordsmen! :!:
Well in fact not.
hammy
Field of Glory Team
Field of Glory Team
Posts: 5440
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: Stockport
Contact:

Post by hammy »

rbodleyscott wrote:
hazelbark wrote:
hammy wrote: As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
Dailami are skileld swordsmen! :!:
Well in fact not.
Oops :oops:

Got carried away there, sorry. Dailami are really good but not quite THAT good.
Post Reply

Return to “Army Design”