Elephants are they worth it? uses?
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Elephants are they worth it? uses?
my first question is what size bg for the ellies 2 or 4
is 2 too weak? 4 to many points for the benifits ?
what are they good for ?
And finnally are they worth taking ?
thanks for the input.
is 2 too weak? 4 to many points for the benifits ?
what are they good for ?
And finnally are they worth taking ?
thanks for the input.
Alas elephants can only be in BGs of 2 bases so your first question is moot.
As to what they are good for, massed elephants are pretty handy as is one BG of elephants between a couple of BG of other solid combat troops such as legionaries or pikes. The -1 to the enemy CT for facing elephants is handy and against a lot of troops elephats fight with reasonable POAs.
Are the worth taking? Well, I am seriously considering taking 12 to the Oxford doubles at 1000 points so I hope so.
As to what they are good for, massed elephants are pretty handy as is one BG of elephants between a couple of BG of other solid combat troops such as legionaries or pikes. The -1 to the enemy CT for facing elephants is handy and against a lot of troops elephats fight with reasonable POAs.
Are the worth taking? Well, I am seriously considering taking 12 to the Oxford doubles at 1000 points so I hope so.
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Last night my carthagenian cunning plan exploded when a freak die roll of 1 on a base loss saw my elephant explode. I hadn't counted on that. Then everything went worse and the legionaires just thumped me.
Still I think Elephants are quite intriguing. As Hammy suggested they need friends on either side so they don't get overlapped.
Still I think Elephants are quite intriguing. As Hammy suggested they need friends on either side so they don't get overlapped.
They can be used with your cavalry as only one or two stands will be disordered . You will loose 1 die for 3 . As only the equivalent of max 2 dice are disrodered , you loose nothing except a malus for CMT . ( Only if your cavalry is adjacent to the elephants ) . The ennemy cavalry in contact with your elephants ( 2 stands at least ) will loose one die !
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I have used a Late Successor 800pt pike army against a Roman army several times now.
I found the biggest weakness of a Successor is the immediate flanks of the pikes (which I always mass in the centre). Elephants are surprisingly effective in tying down the loose ends. I now field 2 BGs, one on each flank of the pikes.
I found the biggest weakness of a Successor is the immediate flanks of the pikes (which I always mass in the centre). Elephants are surprisingly effective in tying down the loose ends. I now field 2 BGs, one on each flank of the pikes.
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Which ties in exactly with Pyrrhus' tactics.madmike111 wrote:I have used a Late Successor 800pt pike army against a Roman army several times now.
I found the biggest weakness of a Successor is the immediate flanks of the pikes (which I always mass in the centre). Elephants are surprisingly effective in tying down the loose ends. I now field 2 BGs, one on each flank of the pikes.
Personally I think elephants suck big time. I used Classical Indian twice yesterday, and found they died or broke everytime. Many people think the real danger to an elephant is the odd death roll of 1, but they also can suffer from cmt's caused by the troops around them breaking too, something the Indian army is likely to do it seems.
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I tend to agree about jumbos and their limitations but the only ones I HAVE had a good result with was....the Indians! I found massing the jumbo BGs together worked pretty well, flanks guarded by big BGs of MF with all three generals handy to lead the jumbos and more MF and Cav giving them rear (at a safe distance....and with shovels for their allotments ) support.
Martin
Martin
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1. Elephants on their own are dogmeat.
2. Elephants mixed with cavalry are dogmeat and they stuff up the cavalry.
3. Elephants mixed in with decent foot are vicious.
In a battleline they are very difficult to pop with bowfire and once the fisticuffs kick off, they just seem to stick around, bolstering the line nicely. Also, the -1 CT for losing to elephants is a real killer...really disrupts the opponent's cohesion...
2. Elephants mixed with cavalry are dogmeat and they stuff up the cavalry.
3. Elephants mixed in with decent foot are vicious.
In a battleline they are very difficult to pop with bowfire and once the fisticuffs kick off, they just seem to stick around, bolstering the line nicely. Also, the -1 CT for losing to elephants is a real killer...really disrupts the opponent's cohesion...
I dissagree with point 1, elephants with more elephants aren't too shabby.Luddite wrote:1. Elephants on their own are dogmeat.
2. Elephants mixed with cavalry are dogmeat and they stuff up the cavalry.
3. Elephants mixed in with decent foot are vicious.
In a battleline they are very difficult to pop with bowfire and once the fisticuffs kick off, they just seem to stick around, bolstering the line nicely. Also, the -1 CT for losing to elephants is a real killer...really disrupts the opponent's cohesion...
On point 2 they don't upset friendly cavalry that much, just don't have elephants either side of your cavalry.
As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
Should've been clearer...i really meant an elephant BG on its own...i line of elephants is horrifying to facehammy wrote:I dissagree with point 1, elephants with more elephants aren't too shabby.Luddite wrote:1. Elephants on their own are dogmeat.
2. Elephants mixed with cavalry are dogmeat and they stuff up the cavalry.
3. Elephants mixed in with decent foot are vicious.
In a battleline they are very difficult to pop with bowfire and once the fisticuffs kick off, they just seem to stick around, bolstering the line nicely. Also, the -1 CT for losing to elephants is a real killer...really disrupts the opponent's cohesion...
...
Just from what we've seen so far on our table top...keeping the nellies away from you own cavalry seems to be a good idea...
On point 2 they don't upset friendly cavalry that much, just don't have elephants either side of your cavalry.
Agreed...they really seem to bolser a line, even of dodgy bowmen...just our experience really. My phalanx seems to be able to shift most enemy foot except the elephants...grr...
As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
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It could have been operator Error.Scrumpy wrote:Personally I think elephants suck big time. I used Classical Indian twice yesterday, and found they died or broke everytime. Many people think the real danger to an elephant is the odd death roll of 1, but they also can suffer from cmt's caused by the troops around them breaking too, something the Indian army is likely to do it seems.
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Oopsrbodleyscott wrote:Well in fact not.hazelbark wrote:Dailami are skileld swordsmen!hammy wrote: As to point 3 elephants mixed with something like Dailami foot (superior armoured medium foot impact foot skilled swordsmen) are very scary indeed.
Got carried away there, sorry. Dailami are really good but not quite THAT good.