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Cheese for Sung Chinese?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:16 pm
by Intothevalley
Just wondering about this, since Sung Chinese were mentioned in a recent(ish) thread about what new figure ranges ancients wargamers might like.

In the Sung Chinese list, the infantry are ‘mixed’ MF crossbow types with half having crossbow plus light spear and the other half crossbow only . After 1050 (IIRC) there is the option to have separate ‘close combat’ and missile troop formations, so you gain some MF heavy weapon close combat foot battlegroups, but the missile battlegroups lose the light spear. You can still take the ‘mixed formations’ option that benefit from the light spear freebie after 1050 if you wish, but you can’t do this with separated formations in the same army (i.e. all separate formations or all mixed).

One of the special campaign options is for Yue Fei (1130ish to 1141), where all units with heavy weapon units (heavy weapon is the only required parameter listed) have to be converted to average HF with heavy weapon. If you were taking the mixed infantry option (i.e. missile troops with light spear) then this would have no impact, unless you decided to take the optional militia, which normally would be MF poor heavy weapon (the militia cannot be taken as mixed formations at any date). If you went down this route would it be cheesy? You’d get the benefits of having separate close combat foot (albeit HF rather than MF), and missile units with the light spear freebie (admittedly, pretty thin benefits). However, although to my eye technically possible, it doesn’t quite seem in the spirit of the restriction for either/or regarding use of mixed units with separate close combat units – would this pass muster with tournament list-checkers?

Re: Cheese for Sung Chinese?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:37 pm
by petedalby
I am not a regular list checker but I don't think it would be a problem.

The mixed formation option still allows 0-12 HF anti-cavalry squads to be fielded. The Special Campaign option allows you to increase this number. There is only a brief description of the campaign vs the Jin which supports this approach so little else to guide us.

If it is a serious consideration / worry you probably need to agree it with the list checker in advance to be on the safe side but usually the lists mean what they say.

Re: Cheese for Sung Chinese?

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:57 pm
by grahambriggs
Yes the list allows this to be done. So there is no reason why a list checker would not allow it.

Re: Cheese for Sung Chinese?

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:11 pm
by Intothevalley
Thanks very much for the above clarifications, sorry I didn't acknowledge sooner.

I might give them a run out in that format though I don't hold out much hope for them, be good to shake the dust off them and save me rebasing!