[Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

pavelk
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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by pavelk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:19 am

gwgardner wrote:I have conquered maybe 10 cities during the scenario, and all of them immediately have 100% loyalty to me. As designed?
This is all configurable in the scenario file. So Cablenexus either learned how to configure these things or there is a bug. Was it immediate jump from (lets say 70% to 100%) or it was slowly increasing?

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:32 am

In the other scenarios/custom game, there was a 3 unit stacking limit. Here I have four military units in one city. None of them are loaded into the city. Is this a parameter change for this scenario?
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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by pavelk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:38 am

gwgardner wrote:In the other scenarios/custom game, there was a 3 unit stacking limit. Here I have four military units in one city. None of them are loaded into the city. Is this a parameter change for this scenario?
It is a scenario parameter, but in this case it is still valid even for limit of 3 units. One of your unit is IN city, which is not counted to the limit in general (like for example you can have three triremes and each have one other unit)

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:50 am

I checked all four units and none are loaded into the city. I mean, I could not unload any of them. Maybe the one being repaired is counted as loaded or in the city?

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:51 am

pavelk wrote:
gwgardner wrote:I have conquered maybe 10 cities during the scenario, and all of them immediately have 100% loyalty to me. As designed?
This is all configurable in the scenario file. So Cablenexus either learned how to configure these things or there is a bug. Was it immediate jump from (lets say 70% to 100%) or it was slowly increasing?
As soon as I conquer and enter the city, it's immediately 100% loyal.

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by pavelk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:52 am

gwgardner wrote:I checked all four units and none are loaded into the city. I mean, I could not unload any of them. Maybe the one being repaired is counted as loaded or in the city?
That is correct. You cannot unload it because it would violate the rule of up to three units on one tile. One of the units is clearly the city based on the tooltip.
gwgardner wrote:As soon as I conquer and enter the city, it's immediately 100% loyal.
It seems like configured by Cablenexus (or removed by accident).

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by Cablenexus » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:25 pm

About the loyality part:

Did you enabled this feature afterwards with the flagstate line Pavel provided?

(Open your AG save file and in tag <StateMemento find stateFlags. Add +1 to this value. In your case it was 2080, so change it to 2081 - stateFlags="2081". This is a bit nonstandard operation to change it in the middle of game because it has some impacts on other parts of the game (you might expect some anomalies first one-two turns) but it should stabilize afterwards.)

Or do you play with it enabled from start?

If this has nothing to do with it, what could I have changed to alter this? I can't remember I set loyality anywhere, except when pre building settlements in the scenario file I always set their loyality to 10.

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by pavelk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:04 pm

Cablenexus wrote:Did you enabled this feature afterwards with the flagstate line Pavel provided?
This was a guide how to enable army morale. Had nothing to do with loyalty.
Cablenexus wrote:If this has nothing to do with it, what could I have changed to alter this? I can't remember I set loyality anywhere, except when pre building settlements in the scenario file I always set their loyality to 10.
Every RelationMemento has these attributes (and other ones of course):
  • loyaltyIncrease - increase of loyalty per one turn (multiply 100 to get percentages)
  • minLoyalty - min value of loyalty to which the conquered city is set
  • willingnessOfSubordination - willingness to become slave in federation or confederation
RelationMemento is a one way setting of how a player likes another player. There are also generic values of loyaltyIncrease, minLoyalty and willingnessOfSubordination in playerMemento if there is no RelationMemento defined

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by Cablenexus » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:40 pm

I can't find anything changed in this parameters in my scenario.
When I compare those numbers to the ancient scenario I don't see anything unusual except that in the Ancient scenario all those lines in relationmemento:

<RelationMemento longRelation="22" shortRelation="22" relationToId="1" willingnessOfSubordination="0" loyaltyIncrease="0.028" minLoyalty="0.3">

Has a number like 0.5 or 0.3 etc etc

In my scenario this minLoyalty is set always to 0.

Also the loyalityincrease is set always to 0 in my scenario while the ancient scenario always has a small number there (0.3 or 0.5 etc).

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:48 pm

Not to interrupt your posts on loyalty, but:

an observation using alt-a: the countries I've looked at are negative for stones and wood, low on others. They are typically pushovers in war. They're not fighting back because they have no units to fight with. Possibly the fort cost problem?

You've provided a subsidy for the Romans, but for the other countries? Probably have to reduce their costs.

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:51 pm

The Ptolemaic Empire is listed as one of the countries, using alt-a. The source of the subsidy?

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by pavelk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:02 pm

Is this loyalty thing happening all the time? Can you reproduce that? If so, send me the file, I will have a look where the problem is

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:10 pm

pavelk wrote:Is this loyalty thing happening all the time? Can you reproduce that? If so, send me the file, I will have a look where the problem is
Look at the two most recent cities I took, at the norther border of Nervii, two damaged cities starting with 'V.' Or any other of the northern cities which were all conquered.
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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by Cablenexus » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:19 pm

gwgardner wrote:The Ptolemaic Empire is listed as one of the countries, using alt-a. The source of the subsidy?
Good spot. It's the only tribe ingame I did not customized yet. I did not want to delete it yet since I want to use it probably for reason mentioned.

For now the subsidy has nothing to do with other tribes involved.

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by Cablenexus » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:24 pm

gwgardner wrote:Not to interrupt your posts on loyalty, but:

an observation using alt-a: the countries I've looked at are negative for stones and wood, low on others. They are typically pushovers in war. They're not fighting back because they have no units to fight with. Possibly the fort cost problem?

You've provided a subsidy for the Romans, but for the other countries? Probably have to reduce their costs.
- Note when using alt-a, new issues appear that are not an issue in the normal game. (just if you continue play alt-a again and also make sure alt-q is not activated only if you want to observe enemy moves).

- I implemented the subsidy for Rome only atm. Just to see how the scripts works. I can do this for other countries as well but I have not made my mind up yet how I will do.
It will all be part of the big balancing update soon. Assign starting units, assign starting forts, assign starting resources, assign starting techs, assign starting diplomacy etc etc
Very good to have feedback already so I can use it in balancing round (that's why I wanted the Alpha to be out already) but atm it's just a unbalanced mess.

- The tribes that should have no issues to survive are Rome, Frisii, Batavi and some smaller ones, but even when sometimes Batavi get's really big, I also had games they were crushed early ingame. Let's say like this, the scenario never plays out the same twice anyway, which I think is a good thing.

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:18 pm

1) wouldn't make sense for the other countries to get subsidies;

2) the subsidy for the Roman player, if treated mechanically as apermanent 'trade gift,' from an off-map country, could be pirated by the other players - that's an additional aspect of gameplay;

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by Cablenexus » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:30 pm

gwgardner wrote:1) wouldn't make sense for the other countries to get subsidies;

2) the subsidy for the Roman player, if treated mechanically as apermanent 'trade gift,' from an off-map country, could be pirated by the other players - that's an additional aspect of gameplay;
Do you mean you should like it that way with piracy? Or not?

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by pavelk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:56 pm

gwgardner wrote:Look at the two most recent cities I took, at the norther border of Nervii, two damaged cities starting with 'V.' Or any other of the northern cities which were all conquered.
The reason is simple - loyalty is turned off.

You have currently turned on just army morale, random events and piracy.

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by gwgardner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:10 pm

Yes, the possibility of piracy ads another dimension to play.

With regard to loyalty, sorry I wasted both of your time! It's the short-term memory. Sometimes the long-term memory.

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Re: [Release]Holland -Battle over Rhenus 50 B.C.

Post by pavelk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:17 pm

gwgardner wrote:Yes, the possibility of piracy ads another dimension to play.

With regard to loyalty, sorry I wasted both of your time! It's the short-term memory. Sometimes the long-term memory.
You can add value 128 to the existing value of StateFlags, but I cannot guarantee flawless functionality. It might turn all the cities in the game to 0 loyalty and it will slowly increasing.
If you want to play it with loyalty and set it to the default value at the beginning, edit your save AG file and add (or edit) in every unitMemento this loyalty="1"

The game is simply not done for these changes, however if you set the loyalty to 1 for each unitMemento, it will work.

EDIT - it actually should work correctly and set it automatically to 1. There is a backwards compatibility for that.
Last edited by pavelk on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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