Problems with Judea

Field of Glory: Empires is a grand strategy game in which you will have to move in an intricate and living tapestry of nations and tribes, each one with their distinctive culture.
Set in Europe and in the Mediterranean Area during the Classical Age, experience what truly means to manage an Empire.

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Yaitz331
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Problems with Judea

Post by Yaitz331 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:05 pm

After watching a playthrough of Judea, I noticed that, at least according to the gameplay notes, the Temple in Jerusalem is called "Solomon's Temple". That's innacurate; Solomon's Temple was the First Temple (~1000 BCE - 586 BCE), while the Temple in FoG:E's time period was the Second Temple, "Bayit Sheni (lit. Second House)" (although it was also called just the Bet Mikdash/Bet HaMikdash (lit. House of Holiness)).
The Temple should be called one of "Second Temple", "Jewish Temple", or "Bet (Ha)Mikdash". My personal preference would be the latter.

Not only that, but it said "rebuild the Temple of Solomon". The Second Temple was already built. And if you meant that they would replace the Second Temple, it would still be called the Second Temple; Herod did it and it wasn't renamed.

Also, Samaria is in the wrong place. The coastal plain was called Paralia by the Seleucids (it was an eparchy). Samaria was the area of the modern northwest West Bank, around Nablus.

Also, while we're on the subject, would it be possible to change the localization of Hierosolyma to Jerusalem when Judea takes control of it?

Yaitz331
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Yaitz331 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:26 pm

Yaitz331 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:05 pm
After watching a playthrough of Judea, I noticed that, at least according to the gameplay notes, the Temple in Jerusalem is called "Solomon's Temple". That's innacurate; Solomon's Temple was the First Temple (~1000 BCE - 586 BCE), while the Temple in FoG:E's time period was the Second Temple, "Bayit Sheni (lit. Second House)" (although it was also called just the Bet Mikdash/Bet HaMikdash (lit. House of Holiness)).
The Temple should be called one of "Second Temple", "Jewish Temple", or "Bet (Ha)Mikdash". My personal preference would be the latter.

Not only that, but it said "rebuild the Temple of Solomon". The Second Temple was already built. And if you meant that they would replace the Second Temple, it would still be called the Second Temple; Herod did it and it wasn't renamed.

Also, Samaria is in the wrong place. The coastal plain was called Paralia by the Seleucids (it was an eparchy). Samaria was the area of the modern northwest West Bank, around Nablus.

Also, while we're on the subject, would it be possible to change the localization of Hierosolyma to Jerusalem when Judea takes control of it?
Bump.

Pocus
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Pocus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:34 am

Hi Yaitz.

Two preambles first. (1) I have no doubt you are much much better the history of Judea than me. (2) I'm always open to suggestions, even if I don't agree with them all :)

If there is any change that will be done, it won't be for release though, as we are only testing now. Changing anything can lead to real risks not worth the potential benefit.

Solomon Temple is a very catchy naming. Much more than the more plain 'Jewish Temple'. The game don't follow strictly historicity also. As you have noticed for example, the Jew people are 'exiled' in an adjacent region at game start. And Judea wonder can be improved several time. All this is not strictly historical.
That said, I'm not against renaming it, but no insurance given either.

I have taken notes of your 3 remarks though.
Take the history of Judea with a grain of salt or two when you play Empires. This is not a pure historical simulation, but a mix of different game styles. You will see things that are not historical, probably. Even this bother you a lot and you'll not appreciate the game in full, or you try to play what is fundamentally before anything a game with historical setting. It's like saying in Civilization that Julius Caesar was not a contemporary of Dido. Now don't put words in my mouth I did not speak, Empires is much much more historical than Civilization :wink:
AGEOD Team - Makers of Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.

Yaitz331
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Yaitz331 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:10 am

Pocus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:34 am
Hi Yaitz.

Two preambles first. (1) I have no doubt you are much much better the history of Judea than me. (2) I'm always open to suggestions, even if I don't agree with them all :)

If there is any change that will be done, it won't be for release though, as we are only testing now. Changing anything can lead to real risks not worth the potential benefit.
Gameplay changes, yeah. Localization changes shouldn't carry any risk though, should they? Changing "Samaria" to "Paralia" or "Solomon's Temple" to "Bet HaMikdash" wouldn't carry any risk.
And I would prefer "Jerusalem" to "Hierosolyma", if only because it would be FAR more recognizable to people playing.
Solomon Temple is a very catchy naming. Much more than the more plain 'Jewish Temple'. The game don't follow strictly historicity also. As you have noticed for example, the Jew people are 'exiled' in an adjacent region at game start. And Judea wonder can be improved several time. All this is not strictly historical.
That said, I'm not against renaming it, but no insurance given either.
I mean, Bet HaMikdash is also quite catchy, and "Second Temple" isn't too bad either. :D
I have taken notes of your 3 remarks though.
Take the history of Judea with a grain of salt or two when you play Empires. This is not a pure historical simulation, but a mix of different game styles. You will see things that are not historical, probably. Even this bother you a lot and you'll not appreciate the game in full, or you try to play what is fundamentally before anything a game with historical setting. It's like saying in Civilization that Julius Caesar was not a contemporary of Dido. Now don't put words in my mouth I did not speak, Empires is much much more historical than Civilization :wink:
I'm not expecting it to. I only complain about historicity when a game is adamant that it is utterly historical. You're not going to find me complaining about how Judea can just massively expand into empty desert at game start, nor about multiple improvements of the Temple. I'm only complaining about names of stuff and "rebuilding" the Temple. That said, I've seen another gameplay video showing that it actually goes automatically from "ruined" to just there once Judea captures it, which removes that complaint.

Thanks!

Asty
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Asty » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:15 am

Pocus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:34 am
Hi Yaitz.

Two preambles first. (1) I have no doubt you are much much better the history of Judea than me. (2) I'm always open to suggestions, even if I don't agree with them all :)

If there is any change that will be done, it won't be for release though, as we are only testing now. Changing anything can lead to real risks not worth the potential benefit.

Solomon Temple is a very catchy naming. Much more than the more plain 'Jewish Temple'. The game don't follow strictly historicity also. As you have noticed for example, the Jew people are 'exiled' in an adjacent region at game start. And Judea wonder can be improved several time. All this is not strictly historical.
That said, I'm not against renaming it, but no insurance given either.

I have taken notes of your 3 remarks though.
Take the history of Judea with a grain of salt or two when you play Empires. This is not a pure historical simulation, but a mix of different game styles. You will see things that are not historical, probably. Even this bother you a lot and you'll not appreciate the game in full, or you try to play what is fundamentally before anything a game with historical setting. It's like saying in Civilization that Julius Caesar was not a contemporary of Dido. Now don't put words in my mouth I did not speak, Empires is much much more historical than Civilization :wink:
Pocus, a little bit of English "Localization" advice.

Use "Jewish" instead of "Jew", e.g. the Jewish People, not the Jew People.

For historical connotation reasons I won't go into here, it harmonizes with the ear much better.

TY

Pocus
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Pocus » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:58 pm

Point well taken! I would not like to step in some nauseous quagmires here.

I had some fun designing the gameplay of the Jewish nation :wink: by the way. Far from perfect, not fully historical, but one-of-a-kind on how they play, definitively. I believe only one beta tester managed to push the holy temple to the max level, and it was transforming Judea in a juggernaut.
AGEOD Team - Makers of Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.

Yaitz331
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Yaitz331 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:21 pm

Pocus wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:58 pm
I had some fun designing the gameplay of the Jewish nation :wink: by the way. Far from perfect, not fully historical, but one-of-a-kind on how they play, definitively. I believe only one beta tester managed to push the holy temple to the max level, and it was transforming Judea in a juggernaut.
I'm not an expert in video game design, and the Judea gameplay looks AMAZING from what I've seen, so I'm doubly not complaining about the gameplay. :D
I'm still complaining about localization though. :P

Yaitz331
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Yaitz331 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:00 pm

By the way, shouldn't Judea's capital switch to Jerusalem once Jerusalem is captured?

Pocus
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Re: Problems with Judea

Post by Pocus » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:22 pm

That's not done automatically, you can do it by disassembling your palace (it takes 3 turns) while making sure Jerusalem is your region producing the most culture. Then the new palace will appear there.
AGEOD Team - Makers of Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.

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