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Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:34 pm
by Blathergut
So in my last game where Lusitania streaked like a meteor to the top of both the CDR and Legacy, I built as many food producing buildings as I could in each region. Then I built the wells and such and health and such so that my populations would also streak to massive numbers. (Now, sneaking around the map, esp. Rome, seemed to have pops in the 20s and higher where my largest was approaching 20.)

But is more better?

More buildings = more stuff for sure.

But is there maybe an optimum point where there will be so much unrest if you continue to increase that it's not worth it?

Has anyone tried limiting growth?

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:14 pm
by loki100
I am in my current game, want enough agriculture to trigger some of the more useful buildings but generally trying to avoid too much loyalty challenge from too high a population. Not sure about this, but its interesting to test out

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:50 pm
by Blathergut
There does seem to be a point, for me around maybe turn 100+ in the last game, where unrest is a major problem since population hits that magical 'more than 12' citizen point. I scrambled to keep up with it, esp. since slaves were popping in a couple places as well.

But then, having gone on a major loyalty building binge, plus hitting golden age after golden age, loyalty was through the roof (like 120% or greater).

But yes, I thought it could be interesting to keep citizen pop. down and see how the game plays.

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:42 pm
by Ragu777
personally i don't like to have mre than 12-14 citizen per region
but i like to have as much as i can slaves - because after decision with extra rights - you can have ZERO unrest from some slaves

so food and health useless for me in mist cases

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:30 pm
by PDiFolco
Ragu777 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:42 pm
personally i don't like to have mre than 12-14 citizen per region
but i like to have as much as i can slaves - because after decision with extra rights - you can have ZERO unrest from some slaves

so food and health useless for me in mist cases
Mostly agree, but healthcare gives loyalty bonuses so the more the better 😀

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:46 pm
by Ragu777
PDiFolco wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:30 pm
Mostly agree, but healthcare gives loyalty bonuses so the more the better 😀
how it gives it?

loyality from welfare given by culture

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:16 pm
by loki100
Ragu777 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:46 pm
PDiFolco wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:30 pm
Mostly agree, but healthcare gives loyalty bonuses so the more the better 😀
how it gives it?

loyality from welfare given by culture
yes, but a lot of the healthcare buildings have very nice secondary traits, so even if you are trying to control pop growth you need to take a few of these

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:55 pm
by PDiFolco
Ragu777 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:46 pm
PDiFolco wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:30 pm
Mostly agree, but healthcare gives loyalty bonuses so the more the better 😀
how it gives it?

loyality from welfare given by culture
Oops my bad I stand corrected...
Though it'll be logical that health infrastructure boost loyalty...

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:37 pm
by Gilmer
Blathergut wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:34 pm
So in my last game where Lusitania streaked like a meteor to the top of both the CDR and Legacy, I built as many food producing buildings as I could in each region. Then I built the wells and such and health and such so that my populations would also streak to massive numbers. (Now, sneaking around the map, esp. Rome, seemed to have pops in the 20s and higher where my largest was approaching 20.)

But is more better?

More buildings = more stuff for sure.

But is there maybe an optimum point where there will be so much unrest if you continue to increase that it's not worth it?

Has anyone tried limiting growth?
It goes with the law of diminishing returns. Every population you get, it seems like loyalty starts the long downward trend with loyalty type buildings slowing it as much as possible. 20 sounds about right for when things really start going badly. If they were your beginning regions or regions you build up yourself, they seem to do better. Capturing regions already at 20+, seems like the loyalty is shot to hell for about 10-12 turns. And even then might not ever get over 75.

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:08 pm
by IainMcNeil
A lot of the loyalty problems come from Ethnicity. It takes a long time to convert a large city to your culture and until you do you're going to have to keep building loyalty structures.

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:51 pm
by Pocus
Max unrest is 8 per population. A circus or racing track adds +30 loyalty each (I'm not mentioning on purpose national unique also, they are even more powerful). So it amounts to nearly 4 pop unrest.
And the plan is to boost that even further in the next patch, as some players still have some troubles with loyalty (even if their reluctance to build decadence generating buildings is part of the issue)
KurtC wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:37 pm
Blathergut wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:34 pm
So in my last game where Lusitania streaked like a meteor to the top of both the CDR and Legacy, I built as many food producing buildings as I could in each region. Then I built the wells and such and health and such so that my populations would also streak to massive numbers. (Now, sneaking around the map, esp. Rome, seemed to have pops in the 20s and higher where my largest was approaching 20.)

But is more better?

More buildings = more stuff for sure.

But is there maybe an optimum point where there will be so much unrest if you continue to increase that it's not worth it?

Has anyone tried limiting growth?
It goes with the law of diminishing returns. Every population you get, it seems like loyalty starts the long downward trend with loyalty type buildings slowing it as much as possible. 20 sounds about right for when things really start going badly. If they were your beginning regions or regions you build up yourself, they seem to do better. Capturing regions already at 20+, seems like the loyalty is shot to hell for about 10-12 turns. And even then might not ever get over 75.

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:20 pm
by Ragu777
Pocus wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:51 pm
Max unrest is 8 per population. A circus or racing track adds +30 loyalty each (I'm not mentioning on purpose national unique also, they are even more powerful). So it amounts to nearly 4 pop unrest.
And the plan is to boost that even further in the next patch, as some players still have some troubles with loyalty (even if their reluctance to build decadence generating buildings is part of the issue)
but there is some buildings that give less than 8 loyality - so if you go to max citizen - it's not worth gain additional citizen to build them:
fortune teller (4), Tavern (4), Worship Place (6), maybe some more unique

also most slaves have less than 8 unrest, so what reason invest to food and health for more citizen? better have more wars and battles

i suggest completely change unrest system - national ethic sitizen must be best in all aspects, than slaves and then others citizen
maybe not from start - but some decision for reduce unrest per citizen will be nice (maybe legacy for perm reduce unrest like now for slaves? or totaly reduce tresholds for more unrest per citizen)

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:00 pm
by shockk
IainMcNeil wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:08 pm
A lot of the loyalty problems come from Ethnicity. It takes a long time to convert a large city to your culture and until you do you're going to have to keep building loyalty structures.
This is flat out untrue.... Having other Ethnicity is actually less unrest then having your counties Ethnicity. Culture converting actually increases unrest and should be AVOIDED as much as possible. When into more detail here
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 04#p793904

The only plus side iv seen from having native citizens is non-main ethnic citizens have a penalty in culture work. Other then that, every other type of pop is better then main ethnic pop with the exception of 9unrest slaves

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:05 pm
by Soar
Ragu777 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:20 pm
but there is some buildings that give less than 8 loyality - so if you go to max citizen - it's not worth gain additional citizen to build them:
fortune teller (4), Tavern (4), Worship Place (6), maybe some more unique
The minor associated loyalty buff is not the only benefit of these buildings. The Tavern provides good income if you have the bonus goods. The resources from the Worship Place and Fortune Teller are more marginal (unless their associated rarer bonus trade goods are available in the region), but they are religious buildings and as such, make their region qualify for extra benefits from the religion-related loyalty-buffing decision.

Re: Regions: Go Big or Limit??

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:09 pm
by Ragu777
Soar wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:05 pm

The minor associated loyalty buff is not the only benefit of these buildings. The Tavern provides good income if you have the bonus goods. The resources from the Worship Place and Fortune Teller are more marginal (unless their associated rarer bonus trade goods are available in the region), but they are religious buildings and as such, make their region qualify for extra benefits from the religion-related loyalty-buffing decision.
but for what you need EXTRA religion building? better built cult site and then upgrage it to temple
19 money from tavern in best options (but there is some big region where you haven't access to wine) worse then most commerce building