Production user interface

Field of Glory: Empires is a grand strategy game in which you will have to move in an intricate and living tapestry of nations and tribes, each one with their distinctive culture.
Set in Europe and in the Mediterranean Area during the Classical Age, experience what truly means to manage an Empire.

Moderator: Pocus

Post Reply
LDiCesare
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Production user interface

Post by LDiCesare » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:27 am

I think it's quite obvious the production user interface has issues, considering the divided opinions about who wants notifications or not.

Here are a few remarks:
Production is either province or region-based.
When you want to go through your realm to check where you may want to build something, there's currently no easy way to know where there's an idle area.
The best tools we have are notifications, but they are region-level and you may want province-level info, and the ledger, but you need to first sort by province, and check the whole list from top to bottom to see if there's an idle province. One by one. You can also click on a province, click next province and check all the provinces, but then you have to check province-less regions, which is best handled by the ledger method mentioned above.
There's clearly a lack of "Next idle production center" button. That would replace notifications, that would kick in when a new pop opens a slot (and thus remove the need of a notification from new pops too).
By the way, there's also a lack of "Province can be formed" popup, particularly considering the "form province" and "cancel form province" buttons are exactly the same and you need to read the tooltip to remember if you already clicked once.

As for the production interface itself:
When you're dealing with a region, it's functional, although I would like to be able to specify some build queues so the province will automatically build this or that, in this order, if the building becomes available at the end of the previous production.
When you're dealing with a province, it's horrible. You click one region, open the list of buildings, go back to the province, select the next region and have to open the panel AGAIN. If you want to go back to a previous region, you do it again and again...
It would be nice at province level to show, in addition to the 'X slots available', the list of icons corresponding to the buildings that may be built there. To the right you could show the possible buildings (maybe even the shuffle button) so they can all be clicked from here. You could still click on the region to get there, adjust, see the effects, etc, but it might help a bit?
Or at least don't close the buildings tab when going from one region to the next, somehow?
Image
(if image doesn't show, it can be accessed here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ubhvVn ... sp=sharing )
Or just make that clicking in that column, it opens the production window on the corresponding region?
It would allow to see exactly when buildings are going to be finished without having to go back and forth. If you have several buildings that might be done in one turn, the current UI is a headache. Build one, check time, go back to province view, select new region, open production, choose, go back to province, compare. And if you want to change, again 3 more clicks with mouse move instead of the expected 1 click.

In addition, there is no way to do any queueing at province level.
Say I want to produce a blacksmith in province A and then a cult site in province B. If I want to do it optimally, I have to check all the possibilities, decide to do A, wait for 2 turns for it to be finished, and then order the cult site in B, which means I have to check every region again and what I want to build, etc.
I would like to be able to say I want both built now, but build the smithy first, so I get blacksmith on turn 2 and cult site on 3 instead of both on turn 3 as is the case right now. So an ordered list of which provinces should build what in what order.

Pocus
Ageod
Ageod
Posts: 1638
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by Pocus » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:59 pm

At least you'll get something to iterate through regions idle and with slots in the next patch...
AGEOD Team - Makers of Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.

LDiCesare
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by LDiCesare » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:11 am

Thanks. The more I play (and I play a lot because this game rocks), the more I think what's needed is some kind of queue system so you don't have to spend all your time reviewing the same options and taking the same decisions.

Southern Hunter
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:12 am

Re: Production user interface

Post by Southern Hunter » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:22 pm

Pocus wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:59 pm
At least you'll get something to iterate through regions idle and with slots in the next patch...
Excellent

marion61
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:58 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by marion61 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:04 pm

Why does the production interface not allow you to see more than 1 option at a time for each category? If you take a new region, most of the time you have to wait "x" amount of turns to change the build palette and even then there's no guarantee you will get the building you want after the change. It would surely help with running your empire if you could choose what you wanted (provided you met the prerequisites) to build, when you wanted to build it instead of playing Builder's Roulette.

Pocus
Ageod
Ageod
Posts: 1638
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by Pocus » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:58 pm

It was a conscious design decision to move away from deterministic build queue, as done since Civ I. We know that this is a feature that most of you like or at least have no problem with, and a few despise. I guess that's the price to pay for moving away from the canon of the genre.

There are benefits to this system, and indeed, you get less control about what you do. We have not ruled out doing something (in 2020 probably) that would reduce the frustration of players not being too fond of the system.
AGEOD Team - Makers of Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.

LDiCesare
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by LDiCesare » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:20 am

I"ve been shuffling for 20 turns in order to finally manage to get a Marble Vein somewhere in Dacia Superior. I like it. It felt like I was sending people actually looking for marble veins. It is "gamey" but it's a great feature imo.

Hendricus
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:05 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by Hendricus » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:53 am

Pocus wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:58 pm
It was a conscious design decision to move away from deterministic build queue, as done since Civ I. We know that this is a feature that most of you like or at least have no problem with, and a few despise. I guess that's the price to pay for moving away from the canon of the genre.

There are benefits to this system, and indeed, you get less control about what you do. We have not ruled out doing something (in 2020 probably) that would reduce the frustration of players not being too fond of the system.
I like it very much, use what is offered ( not Always all 6 options btw ) or spin for new options.

Pocus
Ageod
Ageod
Posts: 1638
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by Pocus » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:38 am

I'm searching since some weeks for the perfect translation of the French word "Clivant". The best I came up with what "love or hate" ... Any one?
AGEOD Team - Makers of Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.

Demetrios_of_Messene
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:40 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by Demetrios_of_Messene » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:54 am

I do not think that this is always a love or hate thing, i.e. going to extremes. I understand that this is a design decision and can live with that but I do not particularly like it.

Perhaps an option to spend large amount of money (e.g. infrastructure cost x 10 in money) to force select a building would be a good compromise? This way the core system remains the same and the player has the option to force select some badly wanted structures occasionally.

The supreme leader entity (the player) should have a way to grease the wheels of the local authorities as per his desires. You may also add some temporary decadence penalty if you think that money is not enough. Just a couple of thoughts.

LDiCesare
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by LDiCesare » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:11 am

Demetrios_of_Messene wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:54 am
The supreme leader entity (the player) should have a way to grease the wheels of the local authorities as per his desires.
In the case of 'marble veins', or 'black market', the supreme ruler should not be able to do so as it's beyond their control. Adding a 'shuffle until' option would be good enough except you don't know how long it may take (much like real projects which are late 80% of the time).

As for "clivant", you could say there's a divide in the playerbase about that topic. "dividing" seems better than "cleaving" but you'd need a real bilingual to see if the exact same nuance exists in English.

Demetrios_of_Messene
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:40 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by Demetrios_of_Messene » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:43 am

LDiCesare wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:11 am
In the case of 'marble veins', or 'black market', the supreme ruler should not be able to do so as it's beyond their control. Adding a 'shuffle until' option would be good enough except you don't know how long it may take (much like real projects which are late 80% of the time).
No objection. I like the "shuffle until" option fine. Or the developers may simply exclude some structures from the force select option if it makes more sense.

For most cases, (like city walls) I would find it quite sensible to pour money into the local authorities and peasants to get the job prioritised.

sage3
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:38 pm

Re: Production user interface

Post by sage3 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm

Pocus wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:58 pm
It was a conscious design decision to move away from deterministic build queue, as done since Civ I. We know that this is a feature that most of you like or at least have no problem with, and a few despise. I guess that's the price to pay for moving away from the canon of the genre.

There are benefits to this system, and indeed, you get less control about what you do. We have not ruled out doing something (in 2020 probably) that would reduce the frustration of players not being too fond of the system.
Personally, I really really really like the build system. Deterministic means that I just end up cookie-cutter building everywhere. This at least moves somewhat away from that. This biggest improvements needed IMO right now, are to make changes to income rates for Gold, Manpower and Metal. They are much too abundant with very little effort.

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory: Empires”