Is Sparta unplayable

Field of Glory: Empires is a grand strategy game in which you will have to move in an intricate and living tapestry of nations and tribes, each one with their distinctive culture.
Set in Europe and in the Mediterranean Area during the Classical Age, experience what truly means to manage an Empire.

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TimDee58
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Is Sparta unplayable

Post by TimDee58 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:29 pm

I reckon I'm a pretty good player having won as Athens and Achaia but I really cannot fathom Sparta out...

Economy and manpower suck, when the inevitable war with Aetolia happens ok its a win, not a great one but a win nontheless, THEN Athens blitzkriegs through Boioitia and into Aetolia & Acarnania which I have retaken despite Achaia declaring war (with a fecking dubious casus belli) which I had to ignore to recover my lost conquests........

My 3 Lochai (and Helots) easily retook Boioitia & Aetolia but then I meet a human wave of Athenians in Acarnania... I'm literally swamped by missile skirmishers and so many rubbish foot it's untrue....

My response:
1 - Jump down their throats with a headlong charge - Failed
2 - Extreme envelopment of one flank, taking on 10% of their army (an exposed flank) with all of mine - Failed

So, do I have to hide for 24 turns and hope I hold the field (by default) and that they abandon the province to me? - doesnt sound terribly Spartan does it?

Goddamnit just Spartiatoi & Helots is a god awful troop mix but what else do I have?

Input appreciated, thanks

Seamus
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by Seamus » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:28 pm

What actually became of Sparta during the time period? Did they get ROFLMAO-stomped and made into someone else's backyard? :P

TimDee58
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by TimDee58 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:53 pm

Seamus wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:28 pm
What actually became of Sparta during the time period? Did they get ROFLMAO-stomped and made into someone else's backyard? :P
Yes, seemingly because of their lack of roflcopters

Ludendorf
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by Ludendorf » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:15 pm

I've seen Sparta do very well if they can advance up the Peloponnese peninsula. A high quality army is actually very well suited to warfare on the hilly, restrictive Greek mainland. Just stay out of Epirus's mountains. Find a way to somehow take down Macedon as well and you'll be swimming in legacy and money for much of the game. From there, it's a short boat ride across to Lycia and the riches of Anatolia, assuming the Antigonids are too occupied to stop you. Just watch out for nasty Romans coming east.

You'll probably need a navy to take down Achaia and Athens at some point. Either that, or a lot of time and a god-like amount of patience.

I'm not sure where the Athenian human wave is coming from though. Even so, with frontage 8 terrain, you should be able to choke point them and beat them back.

TimDee58
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by TimDee58 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:15 pm

Okay, I got a win, however it was in a totally unsporting manner and Zeus would be spitting blood and feathers if he was aware of my skullduggery.....

So I deployed my entire army 4000 men approximately in 9 hoplite units with just one unit of shieldbearers (it's been a tough campaign), out of sight of the enemy, in a ridiculous formation purely to remain hidden from the 16000 man enemy force (I didnt count units but i'm certain I was outnumbered in all ways possible).

I deployed the Helots (nice chaps, you'd like them) in view of the enemy army and way away from my hoplites, their sole aim was to distract the opposition and draw them away from my hoplites...

I cunningly maneuvered my hoplites over 5 or so turns (and still out of the enemy view) so that they were entirely hidden in a small wood in my rear left corner..... and waited.

The Helots (remember them) played hide and seek with their opposite numbers (being persued by 4 units of Javelinmen and 1 Light horse, which I was pleased about. They eventually evaded off table with minimal losses, much to the chagrin of the enemy.

They popped back a couple of turns later before again dodging off table when charged, again little damage was suffered.

It was then simply a case of hitting end turn, although I was aware that if they didnt come back I'd lose 3% to 0. Something needed to happen, the fate of our holiday homes in Acarnania depended upon it.

The enemy skirmishing screen eventually probed the wood and discovered a unit of hoplites who they proceeded to pepper.

Luckily for me a single column of Athenians (front unit Hoplites, then 3 of Theurophoroi) came within charge reach so I let them have it, I advanced just one unit into contact who took out the leading unit in just 2 turns, the score then became 4% - 3% in my favour......

Night fell, the province was saved although the very unspartan manner of the victory is not discussed openly in the Palace.

The things you have to do!

Oh yes I almost forgot, in just 3 rounds of skirmish fire and one 2 turn melee I lost over 300 men, in total we only killed 170 or so Athenians, not our best day...

I hope you enjoyed this sorry tale.

Morbio
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by Morbio » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:29 pm

Sparta isn't unplayable, it's just designed not to win... as it is meant to reflect history in so far as the Spartan mentality was designed to limit it's population growth which in turn limits its army size.

Winning with Sparta is survival... for a while.

olivier
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by olivier » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:05 pm

Hello, I found Sparta more playable and easiest than the skythian for example. The most difficult was to control the graecia Province before the Macedonian and won the first Spartan-Macedonian. As you stop the Macedonian expansion, you must rush Epire to take the Castrum Elephantum to negate the macedonian cavalry advantage and Crete to recruit cretan bowmen. After that the second macedionian war was a easy and once you take Macedonian and Thracian Region, you have a perfect killing war machine to crush anyone with a mix of Spartan Hoplite and Phalanx and thracian falxmen protected by molossean and helots skirmichers and cretan archers and 3 or 4 elephants to throw at any cavalry with the help of the prodomoi.
At the turn 316, its was a little boring as rome is a client state and I crushed any other opposition.
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fractious_celt
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by fractious_celt » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:25 am

Well done Olivier. Does Sparta ever get armoured hoplites???

olivier
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by olivier » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:18 am

Yes Fractious_celt,
at start you can recruit only Armored hoplites and Helots JLS skirmichers.
Spartan hoplites have the same cost increase as provincial unit.

fractious_celt
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by fractious_celt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:10 am

Many thanks!

scrangle
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by scrangle » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:58 am

I typically play evenly matched battles (or battles where you’re unfairly disfavored due to army size or terrain) in FOG2 but i find that the Spartans hoplites and later phalanx are so incredibly strong that once you get going you steamroll most opponents.

It’s important to start out really aggressive though, get a good foothold in the Peloponnesos and keep pressure on the independent city states and pounce once good opportunities arise. I’ve also found it useful to conquer the island provinces (Naxos? and Crete) early which can be reformed into a province easily.

TimDee58
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by TimDee58 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:02 am

scrangle wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:58 am
I typically play evenly matched battles (or battles where you’re unfairly disfavored due to army size or terrain) in FOG2 but i find that the Spartans hoplites and later phalanx are so incredibly strong that once you get going you steamroll most opponents.

It’s important to start out really aggressive though, get a good foothold in the Peloponnesos and keep pressure on the independent city states and pounce once good opportunities arise. I’ve also found it useful to conquer the island provinces (Naxos? and Crete) early which can be reformed into a province easily.
Yes on my campaign 'rerun' this is happening

TimDee58
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by TimDee58 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:05 pm

I'm restarting my Sparta campaign using the tweak suggested by RBS on Generals influence on battles from tonight, i'll post an AAR accordingly, honestly think it'll improve over the current situation

brdxman
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by brdxman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:17 pm

I'm restarting my Sparta campaign using the tweak suggested by RBS on Generals influence on battles from tonight, i'll post an AAR accordingly, honestly think it'll improve over the current situation
What did Richard suggest? I can not seem to find it.

TimDee58
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Re: Is Sparta unplayable

Post by TimDee58 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:54 pm

Look in the Modding section of FoG2, its all there in the other thread I posted this morning asking for help (under the heading 'Liaison Tools')

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