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Ethnic Conversion

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:48 pm
by n0b0dy007
Some buildings (e.g. Major Temple) provide a "Conversion bonus" (of current rate). Others (e.g. Secret Cult) provide a corresponding malus.
Apparently, over time some POPs change their ethnicity (and loyalty/productivity) to the "Nation's culture" at this rate.

What is the "conversion rate" and where is it displayed :?:
Do these bonus/malus factors apply to:
  • The one Region with the building?
  • The Province, if any Region has the building? (if so, what are the net effects of multiple in a Province?)
  • The Nation as a whole?
The "Nation Traits" panel has an item stating "Conversion bonus 25% (of current rate)," but the "current rate" itself is not available explicitly.

Re: Ethnic Conversion

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:00 pm
by Gray Fox
From the manual, 6.3.4:

"You can slowly change the ethnicity of your population by enacting
certain decisions. The chance of a given population point converting
to your ethnicity is related to their underlying unrest value (6.4.2,
derived from their own ethnicity). Basically a Germanic population
point is less likely to change ethnicity than a Hellenic one."

In the chart at 6.4.2, Germanic have an unrest value of 6 and Hellenic 2. Still rather ambiguous.

Re: Ethnic Conversion

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:22 pm
by Bridger
It should absolutely be shown on the province UI, because the whole system is very confusing without this info.

The base rate is 4% I believe, so the +5% (of current rate) doesn't do much.

However, the more culture you have stockpiled in a region (not the per turn, but the amount produced in the past), and the more of your own pops are already in the region, the rate goes up. Not sure if the +5% is added before or after this though.

Re: Ethnic Conversion

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:58 pm
by Gray Fox
I did some research. Burgundi got the province of Latium in a diplomatic transaction on turn 161. So initially, the population of citizens is all Italic in the six regions. Exactly 100 turns later I checked the population again.

Latium Starting 31 Italic. Ending 4 Germanic / 27 Italic
Picanum 19 I. Ending 16 G / 5 I
Tiberus 18 I. Ending 16 G / 5 I
Clanis 19 I. Ending 14 G / 5 I
Arnus 21 I. Ending 14 G / 9 I
Etruria 19 I. Ending 17 G / 6 I

As a Gloriuos faction, Burgundi got a +10% of current conversion rate.
Latium had a Stadium for +10% of current conversion rate.
Picenum had a Temple for +10% of current conversion rate.
Tiberus a Cult Site for +5% of current conversion rate.

So even with a bonus of +20% to conversion rate, Latium only got 12.9% of the population converted to Germanic.
Clanis, with only +10% to conversion rate, had 73.7% converted to Germanic.

Obviously, the region being converted makes a difference.

Re: Ethnic Conversion

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:22 am
by Bridger
Culture stockpile also matters once some of the pops are of your own culture (own culture % x culture stockpile increases conversion rate, can't remember the specifics though). So as you convert more of the population, it converts faster. You'll notice the first conversions take AAAAGES, but once you get to around 50% your own culture (and have some decent culture in the region) it will speed up considerably.

Re: Ethnic Conversion

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:45 am
by Pocus
First, the actual conversion rate is still not exposed in the UI. Sorry about that, I know this is fairly important.

For whose interested, the function to check is Region_Ethnic_ConvertChance

In a nutshell. The base is now 3%
if you have ethnic culture, you get +0.20% per 100 points of this culture. And as Bridger says, the conversion will accelerate because of that: ethnic culture is total culture in your region, time the % of pop of your own ethnicity ... So a region with either low culture (total, not production) or only a few pop (or zero) of your own ethnic gets no benefits from that.

Then, you multiply that x time by 0.8, x being the unrest of the population. It can range from 3 to 8 IIRC. And 0.8^8 is only 0.16 ...

Then regional and national modifiers, which modify this number. But if you try to convert a very 'unrestful' pop, with no bonus from ethnic culture, you have in effect 3 * 0.16 = 0.48% per turn. Rounded toward 0.

Then, the min value kick in, restoring that to ... 1% a turn.


Please note that often over the past months people complained conversion was too fast!

Re: Ethnic Conversion

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:08 pm
by FrenchDude
I think that the time to convert one ethnicity to another should not be sped up, it is better the way it is now than how It was before in my opinion