Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

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Zephyr40k
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Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by Zephyr40k » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:42 am

I'll be needing to put in an order for shield transfers soon. Am looking for feedback and reviews on these two manufacturers. Which one is better? LBM is more expensive but it does appear based on their website that the designs may be of higher quality.

Or is there another manufacturer of ancient 15mm shield transfer decals you would recommend?

ravenflight
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by ravenflight » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:56 am

Zephyr40k wrote:I'll be needing to put in an order for shield transfers soon. Am looking for feedback and reviews on these two manufacturers. Which one is better? LBM is more expensive but it does appear based on their website that the designs may be of higher quality.

Or is there another manufacturer of ancient 15mm shield transfer decals you would recommend?
Totally unbiased: my preference is to LBM, but they are slightly more difficult to use. With VVV i've had good results by cutting each of the transfers into quarters (gallic) and using a different quarter in each quarter of the shield. I'd say you could do this with Gallic/Germanic & other barbarians.

LBM would be a bit more difficult to do that with, but their designs are a bit more beautiful. With LBM i tend to overpaint the background colour.


Neither are perfect. Both have their issues.

petedalby
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by petedalby » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:01 am

In terms of quality, LBM are much more detailed but they can be challenging to use. For some troop types VVV can be better.

What scale and what figures do you have in mind?
Pete

ethan
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by ethan » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:55 pm

LBM are IMO generally awesome one of best new things in the hobby in a long time. They can be fussy but figuring them out pays off.

Zephyr40k
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by Zephyr40k » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:22 pm

OK well color me dumb. I ordered and received the LBM decals and have not figured out how to get them to work at all. They seem way too stiff to apply to rounded shields. I've followed their directions regarding "domed" surfaces but as soon as I let off pressure the decal pops off and resumes its rigid,flat form. I've even applied DecalSol to try to soften the decals. Any suggestions?

ravenflight
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by ravenflight » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:50 pm

Zephyr40k wrote:OK well color me dumb. I ordered and received the LBM decals and have not figured out how to get them to work at all. They seem way too stiff to apply to rounded shields. I've followed their directions regarding "domed" surfaces but as soon as I let off pressure the decal pops off and resumes its rigid,flat form. I've even applied DecalSol to try to soften the decals. Any suggestions?
I think you are using the decals wrongly, as I've never had this problem.

LBM are a little unique. They aren't like the decals VVV make. The decal is actually sandwiched between a clear plastic sheet and a backing sheet AND the decal you see is a mirror image of what you will end up with... meaning that the side you look at through the plastic is the bit that gets stuck to the shield and the bit against the backing paper is the bit you see.

So... How I go about it:

1 - cut the shield as close as possible to the shield.
For this I use a pair of scissors to cut it out VERY roughly the (because mine have all been round) use a pair of nail clippers to cut right up against the shield transfer.

2 - stick shield transfer to shield.

This is the tricky bit, and the bit I THINK you are getting wrong. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

Take the hard plastic off the transfer. I use a sharp knife to try to peel the transfer off. This is sometimes VERY difficult. You have to be patient, but in essence you have a piece of plastic that you want to lift off the face of the transfer. It will leave you with a sticky transfer (consistency of sticky tape) on the backing paper.

3 - stick to your shield. Be warned, you cannot see where EXACTLY the shield transfer is going because the backing paper is hiding the detail. You CANNOT move the transfer once you've removed the backing paper, so be patient and try to get it into perfect place first, before step 4.

4- remove backing paper by adding water. I use decal softener to remove the backing paper. It works like water but allows a little more stretch. Be careful however. Your decal softener may be more aggressive than mine. I use Mr Mark Softer.

Zephyr40k
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by Zephyr40k » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:01 am

OK, I think I figured it out. Thanks, Raven. I didn't realize there were three different layers in play - the white paper layer, the clear plastic layer, and the actual decal in between.

I was pre-soaking the decals in a cup of water for 30 seconds, like I do with all other decals. The "decal" floated off of the backing and I tried to apply that onto the model. What I thought was the decal was the decal AND the clear plastic protective cover. That clear plastic bit was far too thick, that's what told me I was doing something wrong.

So I think I got the technique down now. The instructions LBM gives are a bit vague and easy to misinterpret - Raven's instructions are better. And they need to put in big letters "DO NOT PRE-SOAK THE DECAL." 20 years of applying decals is a tough habit to break.

ravenflight
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by ravenflight » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:01 am

Zephyr40k wrote:The instructions LBM gives are a bit vague and easy to misinterpret - Raven's instructions are better. And they need to put in big letters "DO NOT PRE-SOAK THE DECAL." 20 years of applying decals is a tough habit to break.
Glad to have helped. You'll find the LBM instructions are perfectly clear once you know exactly what they are saying :)

I agree that past experience is hard to break. You have to forward think a little becuase the finished product is mirror image you have to take that into consideration in some (rare) circumstances.

Have fun tho.

Zephyr40k
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by Zephyr40k » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:49 pm

Well the *CHANGES TO LITTLE BIG MEN STUDIOS TRANSFERS* note on their website confuses things. Step 4 of the instructions refers to a "Clear Plastic Layer." But on the website it says "instead of a plastic top layer it is now a paper layer, which needs water applied to it to come off." Which (a) indicates that it needs pre-soaking, and (b) indicates there is no longer a plastic top layer, therefore only 2 layers, the paper layer and the decal itself. But then if you pre-soak, the decal adheres to the protective top clear plastic layer and not the paper layer.

I also always find annoying those little self-serving statements like "If you look at the instruction sheet you can see how simple they are to use." That statement on their website does not impart any useful info and only makes their customers feel stupid.

A simple diagram would help things tremendously. Or even better, a YouTube video showing the process.

I write technical manuals as part of my job so I'm kinda sensitive about bad instructions.

petedalby
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by petedalby » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:37 pm

Like I said:
In terms of quality, LBM are much more detailed but they can be challenging to use
Pete

Zephyr40k
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by Zephyr40k » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:25 am

petedalby wrote:Like I said:
In terms of quality, LBM are much more detailed but they can be challenging to use
No doubt there... they are of excellent quality.

ethan
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by ethan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:22 pm

You can sometimes reposition very carefully by getting the LBM transfers sufficiently wet, I often "paint" water over them after they are on the shield and gently tug them around with a razor blade. You do wreck an xfer once in a while doing this but it can work. Then sop up the water with a tissue, let dry and paint with a paint on lacquer to fix it in place. I find this step to be very important.

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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by madaxeman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:10 am

With LBM, I found that painting the shield white, then adding a layer of clear gloss varnish before applying the shield transfer, then adding a further layer when the transfer is dry really helped.

For VVV you can do the same, but no need to do a white background unless you want a white shield !
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eldiablito
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by eldiablito » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:24 pm

This sounds like a perfect opportunity of a Toutube video. Anyone know if one exists?

ravenflight
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Re: Little Big Men vs. VeniVidiVici shield transfers (15mm)

Post by ravenflight » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:07 pm

eldiablito wrote:This sounds like a perfect opportunity of a Toutube video. Anyone know if one exists?
I bought a crappy video camera recantly - I'll post one next time I do some transfers

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