The new scoring system...

A forum to post news about tournaments around the world. Please post any such messages here!

Moderators: philqw78, terrys, hammy, Ghaznavid, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Design, Field of Glory Moderators

madaxeman
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3002
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:15 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by madaxeman »

I've seen some reposted on The Page That Cannot be Named http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/topics.mv?id=63
http://www.madaxeman.com
Holiday in Devon? Try https://www.thecaptainscottagebrixham.com
vexillia

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by vexillia »

madaxeman wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:49 pm I've seen some reposted on The Page That Cannot be Named http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/topics.mv?id=63
Bugger! I'm barred plus it's not easy to follow that site.
nikgaukroger
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 10287
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:30 am
Location: LarryWorld

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by nikgaukroger »

Blimey, is that creaky old thing still going!
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
petedalby
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3100
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Fareham, UK

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by petedalby »

Can't believe we're up to 6 pages on this....however I believe there are some things in this thread that may be worthy of further consideration.

Dan Hazelwood from the States told me recently that he awards prizes for those at the bottom of the results table of a competition. These can be terrain / figures etc and are designed to encourage continued participation. Those on the podium still get trophies but no added prizes. I think this is something that the BHGS could consider adopting?

I have the email addresses for most of the regular competition participants and we do communicate as and when the need arises. I do not have yours Chris but if you’d like to remind me of it via PM I’ll happily add you to my list. And if anyone else would like to do the same please feel free.

I like the idea of a handicap system and we’ve discussed doing something similar at our club as you should at MAWS if you wish to. On reflection though I can’t see this has any mileage or justification for the competition circuit. I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why. We have several good FoG players at our Hampshire club who enter Belgarum and sometimes Warfare. But due to family / travelling restrictions they, thus far, are unable to go to events that are further afield. I suspect that is the case for many people around the country. So giving them additional AP will not make any difference to them attending more events. Having mentioned Warfare – this is already fully booked for FoG and several other periods. Several regular FoG tournament players are on a waiting list. So we are already over-subscribed.

Another example. Graham Evans is an excellent FoG player who for various reasons has not played for a while. As a result he is way down the rankings and presumably would be in line for a positive handicap with your proposal? I’d certainly back him to win on that basis which doesn’t seem very fair to the rest of us.

A final example - I was given a damn good thrashing at Belgarum by an unranked player. I think he was pretty chuffed. I suspect the win would not have tasted quite so sweet if he had been awarded a shed load more points to give me an excuse for losing.
Pete
vexillia

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by vexillia »

petedalby wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm Can't believe we're up to 6 pages on this....however I believe there are some things in this thread that may be worthy of further consideration.

I like the idea of a handicap system and we’ve discussed doing something similar at our club as you should at MAWS if you wish to. On reflection though I can’t see this has any mileage or justification for the competition circuit.
Any golfers in the house?
vexillia

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by vexillia »

petedalby wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm A final example - I was given a damn good thrashing at Belgarum by an unranked player. I think he was pretty chuffed. I suspect the win would not have tasted quite so sweet if he had been awarded a shed load more points to give me an excuse for losing.
Interesting viewpoint. I looks like you have assumed that the handicap was that mentioned by Chris based on extra army points so 800 vs 850 for example. The above is not unambiguous.

Of course the handicap could be in VP with both of you using 800 point armies. Then after your trashing your opponent can revel in his victory safe in the knowledge that his handicap played no part whatsoever (unless it forced you to be stupidly aggressive).

Another advantage would be that it could be calculated in advance by the list checker and no player would have to bring more troops than they would normally.
vexillia

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by vexillia »

petedalby wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pmAnother example. Graham Evans is an excellent FoG player who for various reasons has not played for a while. As a result he is way down the rankings and presumably would be in line for a positive handicap with your proposal? I’d certainly back him to win on that basis which doesn’t seem very fair to the rest of us.
Graham could waive his handicap.
vexillia

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by vexillia »

petedalby wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm I like the idea of a handicap system and we’ve discussed doing something similar at our club as you should at MAWS if you wish to. On reflection though I can’t see this has any mileage or justification for the competition circuit. I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why. We have several good FoG players at our Hampshire club who enter Belgarum and sometimes Warfare. But due to family / travelling restrictions they, thus far, are unable to go to events that are further afield. I suspect that is the case for many people around the country. So giving them additional AP will not make any difference to them attending more events.
I agree travel can be an issue but we're not looking for a panacea but something to have some positive impact especially with new or casual players to increase the pool of tournament FOG AM players.

A handicap system will not fit every circumstance and to be honest I doesn't sound as if the players you mention are the real target of such a system: they sound too good. And as I've said already, they can always waive their handicap if they are that good.
ChrisTofalos
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:18 pm

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by ChrisTofalos »

I have the email addresses for most of the regular competition participants and we do communicate as and when the need arises. I do not have yours Chris but if you’d like to remind me of it via PM I’ll happily add you to my list. And if anyone else would like to do the same please feel free.
Sounds like you already have the makings of a FOG-AM Players' Association. Might increase your workload but what a valuable addition it would be.

I've sent you my e-mail address by PM, Pete. And thank you for your considered response to some of the suggestions made. Your's and Martin Stephenson's 'voices of reason' were a pleasant relief from the 'can't do/won't work/illegal/impossible/etc' torrents of others.
philqw78
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Posts: 8812
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Manchester

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by philqw78 »

vexillia wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:05 pm
Graham could waive his handicap.
PMSL
Have you ever met him?
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
dave_r
General - King Tiger
General - King Tiger
Posts: 3849
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by dave_r »

ChrisTofalos wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:25 pm
I have the email addresses for most of the regular competition participants and we do communicate as and when the need arises. I do not have yours Chris but if you’d like to remind me of it via PM I’ll happily add you to my list. And if anyone else would like to do the same please feel free.
Sounds like you already have the makings of a FOG-AM Players' Association. Might increase your workload but what a valuable addition it would be.

I've sent you my e-mail address by PM, Pete. And thank you for your considered response to some of the suggestions made. Your's and Martin Stephenson's 'voices of reason' were a pleasant relief from the 'can't do/won't work/illegal/impossible/etc' torrents of others.
Thanks Chris.
Evaluator of Supremacy
philqw78
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Posts: 8812
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Manchester

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by philqw78 »

Exactly
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
prb4
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by prb4 »

I don't enter enough competitions to get a good ranking score so I shall look forward to my handicap.

It's like advanced submarining!
vexillia

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by vexillia »

prb4 wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:44 amI don't enter enough competitions to get a good ranking score so I shall look forward to my handicap.
I doubt a simple system based on current rankings will work because the rankings depend on the number of tournaments played as well as the outcome of games.

We probably need something based just on results. So if you did well in your last outing don't expect a large handicap even if it was two years ago.
dave_r
General - King Tiger
General - King Tiger
Posts: 3849
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by dave_r »

vexillia wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:59 am
prb4 wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:44 amI don't enter enough competitions to get a good ranking score so I shall look forward to my handicap.
I doubt a simple system based on current rankings will work because the rankings depend on the number of tournaments played as well as the outcome of games.

We probably need something based just on results. So if you did well in your last outing don't expect a large handicap even if it was two years ago.
The rankings are based purely on results and not games....
Evaluator of Supremacy
nikgaukroger
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 10287
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:30 am
Location: LarryWorld

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by nikgaukroger »

But, IIRC, they are for just 12 months results and you cannot get a "full" ranking unless you do 6 (?) comps. So a good player who hasn't played recently, or plays occasionally, will be ranked low even if their last games were all victories.
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
vexillia

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by vexillia »

dave_r wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:06 amThe rankings are based purely on results and not games....
Hmm! I was confused by this from the BHGS site:
BHGS - FoG Rankings
  • The number of tournaments required for a full ranking is four
  • Only a players best four tournaments will count towards the rankings ...
Looking at the ELO rankings (if they are used) gave me a headache this early in the morning. Worryingly they look incomplete. But they too are dependent on the number of games played. A good player with a small number of good results will still have a lower ranking than a regular player who's played a lot of mediocre opposition.
ChrisTofalos
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:18 pm

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by ChrisTofalos »

prb4 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018 07:44
I don't enter enough competitions to get a good ranking score so I shall look forward to my handicap.
I doubt a simple system based on current rankings will work because the rankings depend on the number of tournaments played as well as the outcome of games.

We probably need something based just on results. So if you did well in your last outing don't expect a large handicap even if it was two years ago.
Exactly, Martin. Some sort of system based on rankings AND previous results is the way to go. Peter, you won Britcon not long ago! Don't think you'd qualify by any stretch of the imagination. :D
dave_r
General - King Tiger
General - King Tiger
Posts: 3849
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by dave_r »

The ELO rankings don't work. We've been down this route many, many times....
Evaluator of Supremacy
ChrisTofalos
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:18 pm

Re: The new scoring system...

Post by ChrisTofalos »

Thanks Chris.
Don't fall out with me, Dave. I like you, you've always got a smile on your face (and not always alcohol-induced!) and you've earned the respect of all FOG players at MAWS (and, no doubt, elsewhere). But I think you're wrong on this one.

Some of the replies I've received border on trolling and I actually felt my blood pressure rising - which is not good at my age! That's what prompted my reply.

The order of the day should be, what can we do to bring in more FOG players, and if other rules have to follow suit, so what?
Post Reply

Return to “Tournaments”