Britcon table size - time for something new?

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nikgaukroger
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Britcon table size - time for something new?

Post by nikgaukroger » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:38 am

OK, as there is a fair body of opinion amongst players that 800 points on 6x4 tables is leading to a lack of variety in armies and a lack of variety in game play - and this is leading to players drifting away from the game.

However, to date, in GB at least, no "big competition" has taken the plunge and changed the format, which can only reinforce the status quo and the downward trend.

Therefore, I'd suggest that it needs a big, high profile, competition to break this trend - and in GB it doesn't get bigger than Britcon. So how about we suggest that for Britcon this year the FoG:AM games are played on 5' wide tables? I'd perhaps even suggest that depth is reduced to 3'6" as well.

Alternatively, if people really cannot drag themselves away from 6x4 I'd suggest 900 points, however, I think table size is the thing to change.

And just to pre-empt one argument - "The Worlds" do not mandate any particular format, so there is no need to follow what has gone before because Britcon is also "The Worlds" this year.
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Post by philqw78 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:27 am

60x40 inches does it for me. Also with no change in the terrain rules, so if you select a 16" circular terrain piece it won't fit in the middle (8MU from edges)

(Oh how Jer would love this discussion)
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Post by dave_r » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:51 am

I think 5x4 tables would be worth a try - would certainly change the current army dynamic, which appears to have settled at the moment.

Not that keen on 5x3 as a multi-day format - more useful as a one day format to get the games in.
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Post by peterrjohnston » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:27 am

Any reason why a common table size should be used, assuming you have themes?

Western medieval, classical world, etc, would be good on 5x4, even 4x4. Steppes, Ghilmen, eastern medieval, etc, type armies are fine on 6x4, but 5x4 would make for a different challenge.

Mix it up, make players think.

(And if you are running themes, have you considered one at 650AP on 5x3 or 4x3, with the same timetable? For those who prefer a more relaxed weekend.)

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Post by spike » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:50 am

Nik

I agree that the current table size for 15mm is too big, I suggest you set up a poll with the varing suggested sizes, and see what people vote for.

On the subject of 650pts (5x3), yes I would enter if this was available at britcon, I would enter it- if it was open or in a period that I have figs for- and I would be keen on more games in that comp, if scheduling and no of players allowed that to happen.


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Post by AlanCutner » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:20 pm

Not keen on doing a 650pt comp at Britcon - purely for the selfish reason that we already have a 650pt tournament series in Scotland. Happy for it to be offered as one of the themes so others can opt for it.

Also OK with reducing table size. But only if terrain sizes, deployment and ambush limits are also reduced. If terrain pieces are not reduced in size they become proportionately larger for the table and we can end up fighting through loads of muck. Makes it even harder to get a result.

My suggestion is to offer
1. Open 650pt on 5'x3' tables
2. Other themes remain on 6'x4'

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Post by philqw78 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:38 pm

AlanCutner wrote:Also OK with reducing table size. But only if terrain sizes, deployment and ambush limits are also reduced. If terrain pieces are not reduced in size they become proportionately larger for the table and we can end up fighting through loads of muck. Makes it even harder to get a result.
If terrain rules stay the same less terrain will be able to fit. A 16" piece will not fit on a 5 or 6. It will also be the only terrain piece to fit on a side edge, whereas 2 are common at 6x4. As for deployment area, if you want to get to grips quickly deploy the full 10MU forward, helps foot armies, if you want some manouver don't.
My suggestion is to offer
1. Open 650pt on 5'x3' tables
2. Other themes remain on 6'x4'
A large number of themes does not offer much of a World Championship.
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Post by philqw78 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:53 pm

It would also be nice to know what Britcon is going to offer for FoG AM. Are there any FoG AM players on the committee?
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Post by Robert241167 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:12 pm

Phil, a very large compulsory piece has a bigger impact on smaller tables and more or less guarantees something significant for terrain troops to utilise.

Rob

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Post by dave_r » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:31 pm

philqw78 wrote:It would also be nice to know what Britcon is going to offer for FoG AM. Are there any FoG AM players on the committee?
I've just raised this exact point with the bhgs representative for the worlds.

If they have an opinion then hopefully they will communicate with nobby / hammy to request a particular format for the worlds / britcon.
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Post by nikgaukroger » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:35 pm

Robert241167 wrote:Phil, a very large compulsory piece has a bigger impact on smaller tables and more or less guarantees something significant for terrain troops to utilise.

Rob

Exactly.

The idea of a different size table would be to change the dynamics of the game a bit, not to play the same game on a smaller table - i.e. to try and do something to alter the case we have of a lack of variety in armies and a lack of variety in game play.
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Post by david53 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:58 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
Robert241167 wrote:Phil, a very large compulsory piece has a bigger impact on smaller tables and more or less guarantees something significant for terrain troops to utilise.

Rob

Exactly.

The idea of a different size table would be to change the dynamics of the game a bit, not to play the same game on a smaller table - i.e. to try and do something to alter the case we have of a lack of variety in armies and a lack of variety in game play.
At last a chance to bring back a bit of spice back into FOG I'm with Nic if it stay's the same people will move to other rules games ect.

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Post by navigator » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:39 pm

my vote goes for 900pts

but definitely not keen on the 650pt small table bashes at major events ! i never did go for dba either so thats why 900 is preferebale to smaller tables

but i agree 800pts on 6x4 isnt right at the moment as its too formulaic and biased towards pin n punch horse armies

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Post by nikgaukroger » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:04 pm

david53 wrote: At last a chance to bring back a bit of spice back into FOG I'm with Nic if it stay's the same people will move to other rules games ect.

If sir is not enjoying FoG:AM as it is currently offered, may I suggest FoG:R :D
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Post by david53 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:05 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
david53 wrote: At last a chance to bring back a bit of spice back into FOG I'm with Nic if it stay's the same people will move to other rules games ect.

If sir is not enjoying FoG:AM as it is currently offered, may I suggest FoG:R :D
Like a lot of people now trying out FOG R, no I've tried that as well, but I like ancients more and would like to play FOG but if the majority of events stick to 6 by 4 tables I'll just go back to LH armies again or might even try and get past the deployment part of MM rules.

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Post by MatthewP » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:17 pm

I wouldn't want to play 650pts at Brticom, but would be very happy to play 800pts on 6' by 3' or 5' by 3', or 900pts on 6' by 4'. Opens up a whole new range of competitive armies (although probably not in my hands).

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Post by olivier » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:01 pm

I rather like 900 pts on 6'*4' than 650 pts on 5'*3'. :wink:

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Post by iversonjm » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:04 pm

900 pts, 6x4

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Post by ethan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:32 pm

I would go 900 on 6x4 or 800 on 5x4.

It is relatively unlikely I will come to Britcon, but I find the idea of going to 650 points a bit depressing regardless of table size. In general I would rather put more toys on the table than less...

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Post by stenic » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:01 am

ethan wrote:I would go 900 on 6x4 or 800 on 5x4.
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