Britcon table size - time for something new?

A forum to post news about tournaments around the world. Please post any such messages here!

Moderators: hammy, Ghaznavid, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Moderators, Field of Glory Design

nikgaukroger
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 10287
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:30 am
Location: LarryWorld

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:36 am

ethan wrote: It is relatively unlikely I will come to Britcon, but I find the idea of going to 650 points a bit depressing regardless of table size. In general I would rather put more toys on the table than less...

650 on 5x3 with 2.5 hour rounds is a very good format, however, I see it as a 1 day format and definitely prefer bigger armies for comps like Britcon.
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 23019
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:28 am

dave_r wrote:I think 5x4 tables would be worth a try - would certainly change the current army dynamic, which appears to have settled at the moment.

Not that keen on 5x3 as a multi-day format - more useful as a one day format to get the games in.
OTOH the idea of not having to get up at crack of dawn to fit 3 games in on the Saturday is quite attractive.

How about something even more off-the-wall:

Players supply army lists at 650 points and 900 points. The 650 point army has to be a sub-set of the 900 point list. Tables are marked out for 6x4 and 5x3.

Play 900 points on 6 x 4 on Friday evening and Sunday, 650 points on 5 x 3 on Saturday.

Then we can get up at a reasonable hour and finish at a reasonable hour on the Saturday, and the tournament is spiced up a bit.

nikgaukroger
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 10287
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:30 am
Location: LarryWorld

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:04 am

Personally I like the intensity of the 3 x 3.5 hour games on the Saturday - one of the things that makes Britcon different. The beers after the last game on Saturday always taste better because of it :lol:
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk

philqw78
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Posts: 8701
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Manchester

Post by philqw78 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:01 am

But surely both of you, Dr Gaukroger and Mr Bodley-Scot, are talking about FoG R since that is what you will be playing.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 23019
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:32 am

philqw78 wrote:But surely both of you, Dr Gaukroger and Mr Bodley-Scot, are talking about FoG R since that is what you will be playing.
Nope. FOGR is fine as it is. And yes, I will.

nikgaukroger
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 10287
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:30 am
Location: LarryWorld

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:46 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
philqw78 wrote:But surely both of you, Dr Gaukroger and Mr Bodley-Scot, are talking about FoG R since that is what you will be playing.
Nope. FOGR is fine as it is. And yes, I will.

Indeed FoG:R works fine with 800 points and 6x4 tables, however, FoG:AM needs a bit of help.
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk

rich
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by rich » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:11 pm

650 point army doesn’t appeal to me.
800 on 5x4 would be worth trying.

GordonJ
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Post by GordonJ » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:55 pm

I'd vote for 800 points on 5x3 or 5x3.5. I'd prefer the table being three-feet deep, but I would compromise on 3.5 feet. A long-overdue change.

iversonjm
Captain - Heavy Cruiser
Captain - Heavy Cruiser
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:47 pm

Post by iversonjm » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:08 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:Personally I like the intensity of the 3 x 3.5 hour games on the Saturday - one of the things that makes Britcon different. The beers after the last game on Saturday always taste better because of it :lol:
Real men play 3 x 4 hour games on a Saturday. But I understand that some may have more, ahem, delicate consitutions.

iversonjm
Captain - Heavy Cruiser
Captain - Heavy Cruiser
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:47 pm

Post by iversonjm » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:18 pm

If we could have a ruling from on high soon that would be helpful, as the idea of travelling internationally for a 650 pt. mini-tournament is not particularly appealling. And if we are shortening the table I'd like to get started painting more Swiss.... :wink:

philqw78
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Posts: 8701
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Manchester

Post by philqw78 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:11 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:
philqw78 wrote:But surely both of you, Dr Gaukroger and Mr Bodley-Scot, are talking about FoG R since that is what you will be playing.
Nope. FOGR is fine as it is. And yes, I will.
Indeed FoG:R works fine with 800 points and 6x4 tables, however, FoG:AM needs a bit of help.
Well since you are both talking about a competition you are not playing in at least its an independant viewpoint. A bit like a UN observer. The warring parties may try and ignore you but their means by which to wage war may be curtailed.

Anyway 60MU x 40MU, 5ft x 3ft 8", 150cmx100cm, OR 3x2 cubits, would keep table proportions the same as 6x4. And more importantly I like the sound of 3x2 cubits. A natural and historical table size. Got to be an argument winner.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

nikgaukroger
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 10287
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:30 am
Location: LarryWorld

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:26 pm

iversonjm wrote:If we could have a ruling from on high soon that would be helpful, as the idea of travelling internationally for a 650 pt. mini-tournament is not particularly appealling. And if we are shortening the table I'd like to get started painting more Swiss.... :wink:

Well the 5' x 4' (or something shorter) at 800 points, or 6 x 4 with 900 points, have been suggested to the Britcon organisers directly - now we wait ...
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 23019
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:20 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
iversonjm wrote:If we could have a ruling from on high soon that would be helpful, as the idea of travelling internationally for a 650 pt. mini-tournament is not particularly appealling. And if we are shortening the table I'd like to get started painting more Swiss.... :wink:

Well the 5' x 4' (or something shorter) at 800 points, or 6 x 4 with 900 points, have been suggested to the Britcon organisers directly - now we wait ...
Who are the organisers in the post-McNeil era?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 23019
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:22 pm

philqw78 wrote:Well since you are both talking about a competition you are not playing in at least its an independant viewpoint.
We may not be playing in it, but believe me we have been giving the issue of table size a lot of thought in connection with finalising V2.

dave_r
General - King Tiger
General - King Tiger
Posts: 3790
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Post by dave_r » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:57 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:
iversonjm wrote:If we could have a ruling from on high soon that would be helpful, as the idea of travelling internationally for a 650 pt. mini-tournament is not particularly appealling. And if we are shortening the table I'd like to get started painting more Swiss.... :wink:

Well the 5' x 4' (or something shorter) at 800 points, or 6 x 4 with 900 points, have been suggested to the Britcon organisers directly - now we wait ...
Who are the organisers in the post-McNeil era?
Nobby and Hammy.
Evaluator of Supremacy

babyshark
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:59 pm
Location: Government; and I'm here to help.

Post by babyshark » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:04 pm

I have deliberately run tournaments at varying point levels and tables sizes at Cold Wars and Historicon here in the US for the past few years. I think that 900 point games are very good, and provide a nice variation from the usual 800 points. 650 points is simply too small, though. It is fine for a one day, minor event, but not suitable for something that wants to be the Worlds. Besides, putting more toys on the table is a better solution than less toys.

Smaller table sizes . . . meh. I prefer more points, as that increases the options available to the players. Smaller tables end up decreasing the options.

Marc

PS. I was hoping to attend the Worlds this year, but my wife claimed that weekend for her own before I got my dibs in. :cry:

Marc

dave_r
General - King Tiger
General - King Tiger
Posts: 3790
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Post by dave_r » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:12 pm

babyshark wrote:I have deliberately run tournaments at varying point levels and tables sizes at Cold Wars and Historicon here in the US for the past few years. I think that 900 point games are very good, and provide a nice variation from the usual 800 points. 650 points is simply too small, though. It is fine for a one day, minor event, but not suitable for something that wants to be the Worlds. Besides, putting more toys on the table is a better solution than less toys.

Smaller table sizes . . . meh. I prefer more points, as that increases the options available to the players. Smaller tables end up decreasing the options.

Marc
you

What he said.
PS. I was hoping to attend the Worlds this year, but my wife claimed that weekend for her own before I got my dibs in.
Isn't that win win? You get to do what you want and your wife gets to do what she wants? And you've got all the money you saved from the flights to Lisbon that are no longer required ;)
Evaluator of Supremacy

philqw78
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Posts: 8701
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Manchester

Post by philqw78 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:12 pm

babyshark wrote:Smaller table sizes . . . meh. I prefer more points, as that increases the options available to the players. Smaller tables end up decreasing the options.
Smaller tables give a different set of options, not less. Just as more points make different options. One thing is for sure. Slow players will be even slower with more points.
Babyshark should have wrote:I was hoping to attend the Worlds this year, but am scared of my wife
I think I might not play FoG AM, or even just not go so I can interject with another worthless opinion

:wink:
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

babyshark
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:59 pm
Location: Government; and I'm here to help.

Post by babyshark » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:43 pm

Babyshark should have wrote:I was hoping to attend the Worlds this year, but am scared of my wife
I think I might not play FoG AM, or even just not go so I can interject with another worthless opinion

:wink:[/quote]

You saw through my attempt to cover up pretty quickly. Oh, and you are also correct about the worthless opinion. :twisted:

Marc

rich
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:12 pm

Post by rich » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:07 pm

Wouldn’t 900 points just give the pin and punch armies more punch if they wanted it? I’m not sure that more troops on the opposing army would really change the battle scenario a great deal.

Is the reason to change the table or army size to reduce the effect of mounted manoeuvrability and potential to dominate the empty space?

If so I’m not sure that 900 points on a 6x4 would change that. Doubles is played with 900 points and the mounted armies still pin and dominate plenty of space to run around in.

Rich

Post Reply

Return to “Tournaments”