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Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:43 am
by ney63
Well, heres my thoughts' I have never liked the three games on the Saturday me like David and Lynda I'm so tired come the last game I do not enjoy it one bit so would rather drop this game.
I quite like the 3 and a half hour games and the long game on Friday and I'm not particularly bothered of what points size we use, the table size my prefer option would be 6 x 4 but not to stressed on this only to say on the smaller tables you tend to get static Infantry armies.
So its 5 games, 6 x 4 tables not bothered about points we us, and 3and a Half hour game.

Andy. :)

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:44 am
by petedalby
What makes Britcon unique for me is the 6 game format.

Dropping the Saturday & Sunday games to 3 hours would allow more time for leisure / shopping etc and address some of the concerns raised.

So I guess my preference would be 800 AP - 6' x 4' table - Book 1 armies.

It would still be good to hear from more players. I'll run a poll in September to get a better steer from the FoG community.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:07 am
by Caliph
I found the very occasional long game on a Friday a pain.
The third game on Saturday is quite tiring.
I think 800 points with a time limit of 3 hours per game would do the trick. The Saturday games could run 08.30-11.30, 12.30-15.30, 16.30-19.30, leaving most of the night free.
6'x4' tables are OK but I think overly encourage shooty/horsey armies. So, when laying out and taping the tables, I'd play around with the width so they vary between 6' and 4.5 feet wide and allocate games to tables randomly. It wouldn't take long. Just to encourage army variation.
I would also consider varying the depth of the tables which would help speed things up.
Rotating books one to three is fine. Other themes would I think, hinder rather than help. I've got enough rubbish armies to run with that.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:36 pm
by MikeHorah
RE ICs and their ‘cost effectiveness

As a non comp player ( as much to do with personal reasons as anything else - travel away from home overnight , no wheeled transport etc) maybe this might be seen as off topic but this issue has been raised here in this thread.

Please don’t muck about with v 3.0 - if only for the sake of us non comp folks! :roll:

The cost effectiveness of an IC in a standard 15mm 4x5 800 point game is, I suggest, different to that of say, a 1200 point 28mm army on a 6x8 – which I regularly play. I stick to 1MU = one inch as 1.5 inches needs to much mental arithmetic. :(

Not allowing a 50% increase in commanders to match the 50% increase in points - and of mini/maxima for troop types - changes the situation as one typically has 50% more units for the same number of commanders. The IC’s command range and ability to move 6 units together eg a block of 6 pike units or of Roman heavy foot, and the 12 “ reach has more value and the relative scarcity of commanders makes one more cautious in their use in the front rank . Especially now you can lose one even if you win a close combat!

The historicity of the FOG(AM) approach to command is arguable but it is a reasonable game construct and simple especially when so little is known about the commanders in many of the armies in many eras. A default FC or TC is what you would end up with if you could not find anyone who justified IC status which would be much of the time. I note that in the original V1.0 and 2.0 lists few armies were denied an IC – Burgundy – any others? It would be very harsh call for most to be denied an IC given the wide spread of years covered for so many lists. :(

I think we handled it a bit better :wink: in FOG(N) but much more is known of the hundreds of divisional and Corps commanders in the era and we have the division and corps structure to shape it. For those who may not know we have a separate “ charismatic” add-on quality - and not all lists get to have one. Nor do they all get top level “ Exceptional “ commanders and we have command points to limit how many CMTs for example they may try - one only for the lowest level three for top level etc etc. I think we use command more as a resource and the combined effect is a measure of the relative quality of the staff systems and staff officers in different armies of the period and which changed over time in some nations eg 1806 Prussians versus 1813-15. We treat the initiative as a sum of the top level commander plus a number out of 3 for a given list and it has different effects. Much more nuanced. But this is for just 23 years of history! :lol:

That said what might one do different in FOG(AM)? I have experimented with the idea of a leader who is not a commander, as such, who can only affect the unit he is with and whose principal purpose is to fight in the front rank- the warrior ideal. If he doesn’t put himself in the front he has no effect on close combat cohesion tests. :shock: Achilles et al fits that bill as do many from the Dark Ages - Ivar the Boneless? - and the medieval era.

On the latter limiting an FC or TC commander to their own “Battle” also works. The Battle is the nearest thing to a consistent order of battle /structure in that world so a minimum of 3 ( Vanward Mainward and Rearward) and a maximum of 4 battles ( 4th is a reserve) in an army with a minimum of 3 units in a battle is the result and you must have a commander for each battle . An IC is typically the army commander ( as well as of a battle sometimes) and can “ float”. ( Edward IV at Tewkesbury I have also used variations between a named “ Royal “ Commander as against a non Royal one. The presence of the King ( Harry VI maybe excepted :oops: ) makes a difference to knights at least. And you can treat Edward Earl of March or as Duke of York differently to when he was an anointed King.

I am not sure if any of that really helps however! It is fun though.

Needs a separate thread I think.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:45 pm
by Hobbit
I would prefer 6 games of 800 points lasting 2.5 hours.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:01 pm
by philqw78
I agree with the troglodyte, sorry hobbit. Meh, same difference

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:24 pm
by lakedaimon
I would Argue that the current timings reflect what is the premier tournament. It is effectively the test match for war games, it needs six games at least. It should be tiring, and test a player over as many opponents as possible.

I say this with admission, I am some one who does better at Britcon.


Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:13 pm
by LEmpereur
Hello from France !

In Ballainvilliers (France) we have a very good tournoi 2 weekend ago, 12 players ! Never seen since 2 years...
Friendly 4 games very appreciate by every one, 800 points (IC or not), 4x6 table, three and half hours of games, every one taking time to laught with each others and don't know the V3 for the half of us!

Fortunately, 2019 is the year to come to Manchester... familly hollidays are in july... but!

As answer to off forum discussion about Roma 2019... I don't want to play 3 days, 6 games, on other than 4 x6' table and other than 800 points army! and discuss the presence of a IC or not! Are the rules made for otherwise?
  • Why 6 games ? Is it necessary to have a pseudo world champion on Sunday night? with so few player.. so few country...
  • 3 days need an extra hotel night! money is becoming scarce... with or without yellow vest!
  • 3 games on saturday to play the third one tired, exhausted, without pleasure? We are not very young... and especially those who stay!
  • Play on all companions? what remains of the historical aspect of our game? One Companion to rule them all, One Companion to find them, One Companion to bring them all, and in the Games bind them...
So what do you want here? Gather friends, allow them to play with each other because they do not see each week or may be long time ago? to allow them to drink a beer with friends? to go to the other tables? to shop? to have a fun dinner by taking the time to discuss and enjoy the moment?

We are living a turning point in the life of our rule of preference ... we must take it gently!

The old principles no longer apply today ... here, elsewhere and everywhere!
Only those who realize it will survive!
New rule ... new rules ... made new ... surprise us!

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:01 pm
by madaxeman
Folks - I'm looking to get Britcon (together with Challege, and also a brand new team event for later in the year...) all on sale by the end of January and so it would be good to get to a definitive position on this fairly soon if possible.

From scanning through the many, many different posts on this thread my two penneth would be to suggest;

- Book 1, because no-one wants open and then we can roll through the books over a 3 year cycle.
- Playing 6 games of 3 hours, as half the people here seem to want an earlier finish on Saturday and other half seem to want to keep with 6 games. Three hours would see you all done by 630ish on Saturday night, and 4ish on Sunday, which would then be one of the shortest periods in overall playing time at the entire event .

There's clearly an as-yet unresolved question on table sizes floating around too... so as a tie-breaker, how about we start with 6x4's and then reduce the table sizes a bit after game 3 ?

Running a bit of masking tape along a dozen boards is only going to take a moment, and having less space for d--king about as you get towards the pointy end of the competition is arguably going to be a good thing as well.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:29 pm
by petedalby
Hi Tim - we ran a poll in October which sorted most of this with 80% of respondents in favour of the proposed format.

Speaking to many of the non-respondents at Warfare the overall message was 'can't be bothered be vote - we'll be there whatever you do'

I'll contact you off forum with the full details.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:48 pm
by petedalby
This is what I've sent to Tim:

Any list from the new Book 1 up to 50AD. Any permitted Allied list within Book 2 up to 50AD. 800 AP.

Variable table size – please set up 6' x 4' - we'll do the rest.

Round 1 - 6' x 4'
Round 2 - 5.5' x 4’
Round 3 - 5' x 4'
Round 4 - 5' x 4'
Round 5 - 5.5' x 4’
Round 6 - 6' x 4'

Friday - variable start time from 18.00 to allow people to arrive at the venue as usual - maximum game length 4 hours. All other games 3 hours.

The proposed guillotine finish has been dropped and we will revert to finishing the current phase when time is called.

Saturday 08.30 to 11.30 13.00 to 16.00 16.30 to 19.30
Sunday 09.00 to 12.00 13.00 to 16.00

This gives a longer shopping break on the Saturday as requested at the cost of a slightly later finish - but still earlier than previously.
And a later start on the Sunday whilst achieving an earlier finish to allow those with longer journeys to get on the road home.

Hopefully I've incorporated most/all of the requests made by those who responded but I don't expect to please everyone. Thanks again to Brian Espie who suggested the variable table size - let's see how that goes!

Happy New Year everyone!

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:17 pm
by dave_r
Good effort Pete. I like the look of the variable table size.

As a suggestion, instead of messing about with tape, just get 12" X 48" cloth pieces and put them on the table to shorten the width. You could use one of these to shorten two tables by 6".

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:06 am
by petedalby
Thanks Dave. I've got loads of tape and it really won't take long. I'll add one section at the end of Friday and then another at Saturday lunch. The subsequent rounds see tapes removed so it should be dead easy.

Famous last words!

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:46 pm
by petedalby
Evening all - just to flag that there are only 8 FoG tickets left for Britcon.

Snooze you lose - don't leave it too late.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:33 pm
by madaxeman
Current runners and riders

Peter Dalby Wessex FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
John Patrick Other FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Graham Briggs Reigate FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Steve Murton Reigate FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Terry Shaw Reigate FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Duncan Thompson None FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Brian Espie MAWS FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
David Morrison Other FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
David Banniater Wessex FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Phil Powell MAWS FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Dave Ruddock MAWS FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Steven Brown Plymouth Association of Wargamers FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
David Fairhurst Oxford FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Lynda Fairhurst Oxford FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Peter Card Oxford FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Paul Longmore MAWS FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Peter Butler Other FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Paul Bartlett Plymouth Association of Wargamers FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Chris Tofalos MAWS FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Jonathan Akers FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Paul Robinson Reigate FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm
Chad Pillinger FoG V3.0 Ancients 15mm

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:26 am
by madaxeman
Current list of 24 signups:

I've not been sent a list checkers address, but I guess as no-one has asked yet that means someone has volunteered through the FoGAM mailing list?

Name Club
Brian Espie MAWS
Chad Pillinger None
Chris Tofalos MAWS
Dave Ruddock MAWS
David Banniater Wessex
David Fairhurst Oxford
David Morrison Other
Duncan Thompson None
Graham Briggs Reigate
Graham Roberts Derby
John Patrick Other
Jonathan Akers None
Lynda Fairhurst Oxford
Martyn Simpson Wessex
Paul Bartlett Plymouth Association of Wargamers
Paul Longmore MAWS
Paul Robinson Reigate
Peter Butler Other
Peter Card Oxford
Peter Dalby Wessex
Phil Powell MAWS
Steve Murton Reigate
steven brown Plymouth Association of Wargamers
Terry Shaw Reigate

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:59 am
by petedalby
List Checker is as per the BHGS website - where they will be delivered to Phil Powell I believe.

The deadline is the 1st August please everyone.

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:49 pm
by philqw78
Yep, already have 2 lists

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:04 pm
by davidandlynda
Just got to have a game with it Monday night then will send on Tuesday

Re: Britcon 2019 - What would you like to do?

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:06 pm
by davidandlynda
Time for your predictions before you get the real thing Phil