Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

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lapdog666
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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by lapdog666 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:56 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:13 pm
Veles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:53 pm
BTW, little suggestions if I may. I know that making separate models for every faction is out of the question but have you guys thought about at least giving them regional names when possible? Look at earlier Total War games where many identical units had different names which made it look like there is a greater variety of units than there really is.
We can look at a doing a bit more of that, but I do dislike having too many cloned units just so they can have a different names, so I try to minimise that sort of thing.
Having Polish or Rus cavalry named "Druzhina" rather than just "Armoured Cavalry" makes the game more immersive.
And is the word spelled the same in Russian and Polish? (Since they share the unit).
Besides, three types of armour for knights in this time span sounds reasonable enough and the maps look great.
Well it is only two in the 1040-1319 period, and then there will be a third in the later period up to 1500.

can you tell us what time is the first knight model covering (1040-1xxx)

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by woos1981 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:15 am

Will there be a new mechanism about castles and sieges battles in the game?

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:03 am

lapdog666 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:56 pm
rbodleyscott wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:13 pm
Veles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:53 pm
Besides, three types of armour for knights in this time span sounds reasonable enough and the maps look great.
Well it is only two in the 1040-1319 period, and then there will be a third in the later period up to 1500.

can you tell us what time is the first knight model covering (1040-1xxx)
1040-1154
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 am

woos1981 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:15 am
Will there be a new mechanism about castles and sieges battles in the game?
There are siege relief battles, fought outside the castle walls, with possible intervention by the castle garrison, but not sieges as such. This was a hard decision to make, since sieges were such an important part of Medieval warfare, but after a detailed analysis we decided that the system did not really lend itself to representing sieges. Relatively few sieges were resolved by assaults, and normal siege operations would make for a pretty boring game. Starving your opponent into submission probably wouldn’t be much fun.

I have no doubt that someone in the community will produce some sort of siege scenarios. The castle models are in place.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Veles » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:48 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 am
There are siege relief battles, fought outside the castle walls, with possible intervention by the castle garrison, but not sieges as such. This was a hard decision to make, since sieges were such an important part of Medieval warfare, but after a detailed analysis we decided that the system did not really lend itself to representing sieges. Relatively few sieges were resolved by assaults, and normal siege operations would make for a pretty boring game. Starving your opponent into submission probably wouldn’t be much fun.

I have no doubt that someone in the community will produce some sort of siege scenarios. The castle models are in place.
Sounds good to me. Are there any wooden fortification models to better represent Northern, Central, and Eastern Europe?

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:59 am

Veles wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:48 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 am
There are siege relief battles, fought outside the castle walls, with possible intervention by the castle garrison, but not sieges as such. This was a hard decision to make, since sieges were such an important part of Medieval warfare, but after a detailed analysis we decided that the system did not really lend itself to representing sieges. Relatively few sieges were resolved by assaults, and normal siege operations would make for a pretty boring game. Starving your opponent into submission probably wouldn’t be much fun.

I have no doubt that someone in the community will produce some sort of siege scenarios. The castle models are in place.
Sounds good to me. Are there any wooden fortification models to better represent Northern, Central, and Eastern Europe?
No rough timber ones at present.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:45 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 am
I have no doubt that someone in the community will produce some sort of siege scenarios. The castle models are in place.
P&S has city broken walls logically offering no Defending Fortification bonus to the defenders.

Will/could castel models have a version with broken wall(s), so that we could make a 'siege campaign' made of several skirmishes on the same map, some battles taking place before wall destructions (attackers vs defenders' reinforcement, attacks of FF defending the access to the castel...) and others after (storming of the castel...) ?

One could imagine castel models with one or several broken walls and maybe several states of wall destruction offering a greater or lesser bonus of Defending Fortification (+30, +50, +75...?). I guess the latter (several bonuses) could be modded quite easily ?

btw will there be, in the Scenario editor, both one-square ready-to-use castles and fortifications one can make out of several 'pieces' (like with the bastions and walls in P&S) ?

(edit)
Also looking forward to see the artillery available in game, their 3d models :-)
Last edited by Athos1660 on Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:14 am

Athos1660 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:45 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 am
I have no doubt that someone in the community will produce some sort of siege scenarios. The castle models are in place.
P&S has city broken walls logically offering no Defending Fortification bonus to the defenders.

Will/could castel models have a version with broken wall(s), so that we could make a 'siege campaign' made of several skirmishes on the same map, some battles taking place before wall destructions (attackers vs defenders' reinforcement, attacks of FF defending the access to the castel...) and others after (storming of the castel...) ?
Broken walls will not be in the initial release, but could be added later.

btw will there be, in the Scenario editor, both one-square ready-to-use castles and fortifications one can make out of several 'pieces' (like with the bastions and walls in P&S) ?
They are designed to be made out of sections, even on a single square.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:30 am

Thank you very much, Richard, for the clarification.

Even without broken walls, scenarios with castels will be great fun!
They are designed to be made out of sections, even on a single square.
Nice.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Retributarr » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:15 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 am
woos1981 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:15 am
Will there be a new mechanism about castles and sieges battles in the game?
There are siege relief battles, fought outside the castle walls, with possible intervention by the castle garrison, but not sieges as such. This was a hard decision to make, since sieges were such an important part of Medieval warfare, but after a detailed analysis we decided that the system did not really lend itself to representing sieges. Relatively few sieges were resolved by assaults, and normal siege operations would make for a pretty boring game. Starving your opponent into submission probably wouldn’t be much fun.

I have no doubt that someone in the community will produce some sort of siege scenarios. The castle models are in place.
I'm no 'historian-expert' on how many sieges were resolved by assaults on the many castles that there were... but!... I did watch all of "The Battle Castle" television series hosted by the narrator 'Jon Snow'. Many of the Castles that he decided to document... did in fact... factor in sieges of one sort or another including some with actual castle assaults.

Castles for the most part did not have an over-abundant reserve of food supplies... only a few did. Water supplies were generally better provisioned for.

In one castle in France… when the English were preparing to siege it... many peasants rushed in to take refuge in the castle... thereby putting a severe strain on the existing food supplies... thus making the castle less difficult to take... by starving it out.

Undermining worked well for taking down those castles constructed on softer ground as verses those constructed on harder ground surfaces or bedrock. Square Walls were much more vulnerable to undermining than were curved or rounded walls or structures... these curved and rounded constructions were more sturdier... and did not come down very easily with undermining.

Moats!... if they were deep enough... and extended far enough away from the castle walls... they would also be quite effective... provided that the soil could hold the water if water was available... otherwise... a dry moat... would be the only option.

One castle in Wales... held by the English-King... was supplied by ships... the Welsh disrupted the shipping supply effort and brought the Castle down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak_des_Chevaliers
One castle in the middle east...in Syria... the 'Crac des Chevaliers' "Fortress of the Knights" was given by Raymond II, Count of Tripoli, to the order of the Knights Hospitaller. It remained in their possession until it fell in 1271.
Image
Image
Krak des Chevaliers housed a garrison of around 2,000. Such a large garrison allowed the Hospitallers to exact tribute from a wide area.

In 1271 Mamluk Sultan Baibars captured Krak des Chevaliers after a siege lasting 36 days, supposedly by way of a forged letter purportedly from the Hospitallers' Grand Master that caused the Knights to surrender.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:49 pm

@Retributarr : Sieges and military architecture are indeed very interesting subjects of History !

But imho, when it comes to gaming (and FoG2 is about military tactics and brief battles, not about strategy or forged letters), some siege phases are boring, such as bombing all day long to maybe break a wall, logistics, watching out for resupply, digging, (re)building, waiting, waiting, etc. What are fun about sieges from a tactical point of view, and FoG2 is currently/already able to recreate them, are different types of exciting skirmishes between those boring phases : storming of castels, reinforcement fights, open battles at the foot of a castel with artillery inside its walls, etc.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Retributarr » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:26 pm

Athos1660 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:49 pm
@Retributarr : Sieges and military architecture are indeed very interesting subjects of History !

But imho, when it comes to gaming (and FoG2 is about tactics, not about strategy), some siege phases are boring, such as bombing all day long to maybe break a wall, logistics, watching out for resupply, digging, (re)building, waiting, waiting, etc. What is fun in sieges from a tactical point of view, and FoG2 is actually able to recreate it, is different types of exciting skirmishes between those boring phases : storming of castels, reinforcement fights, open battles at the foot of a castel with artillery inside its walls, etc.
"Athos1660!"… there is merit in what you say!... and for most... that is what they want... and that is what they are going to get.

I'm an older player... and have had my fill of rigorous fast-tracked combat engagement games... i'm now much more interested in the overall-game-plan... the overall strategy... such as in for example... a fictional grand-plan to do with the conquering of the world... not just an exercise of Slash [Sword Hacking]- Bash/Smash [Mallet Bludgeoning]… or a Skewering/Impaling [With a Knights Spear]… even though that still requires strategy and precise planning.

I want what you have detailed out, but as well as to have an overall game plan to build an Empire... to achieve much more than having success in a fixed set of field skirmishes here and there. I want to create or develop a situation somewhat like the 'Roman-Empire' did.

Sieges do not have to be boring!... your whole army doesn't have to be tied down for endless months on end conducting a siege... you could come back to revisit it turn by turn to check on its progress... so some of your forces can be engaged in that effort... while the rest can continue on with what-ever else.

Sieges encompass... a myriad of strategies and techniques in order to achieve your objective of subjugating the stronghold or castle... and yes... it could take some time... but... I would not find that boring. Not only that, but... when the Castle is taken down... now the territory that... that Castle was controlling... is now likely going to be yours... with no more serious contention.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:51 pm

@Retributarr: let me rephrase it and remove the word 'boring'. Strategy is not boring per se.

But I think FoGII and its predecessor, the tabletop version, are about tactics and short term. What you wish to add seems to be strategy and mid-term and might be beyond the current scope of this game. Don't you wish a kind of Crusader Kings with detailed playable sieges ?

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Retributarr » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:28 pm

Athos1660 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:51 pm
@Retributarr: let me rephrase it and remove the word 'boring'. Strategy is not boring per se.

But I think FoGII and its predecessor, the tabletop version, are about tactics and short term [Ret: Then!... it is what it is]. What you wish to add seems to be strategy and mid-term and might be beyond the current scope of this game [Ret: That's what it looks like]. Don't you wish a kind of Crusader Kings with detailed playable sieges ? [Ret: I have 'Older-Eyes'... and the legible print size in 'Crusader Kings' for me... is so small... that I can't play that game... so I can't answer your question directly!].
However... I don't wish to give up just yet!. Perhaps there is still some way to get some kind of happy medium here to accommodate my perception of how the Game can be designed or engineered.

I really don't know just how limited the capabilities of this Game is or are???... and if it is in-fact quite limited, then my petition for something more grandeous... is just a complete waste of time.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:57 pm

Retributarr wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:28 pm
Athos1660 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:51 pm
@Retributarr: let me rephrase it and remove the word 'boring'. Strategy is not boring per se.

But I think FoGII and its predecessor, the tabletop version, are about tactics and short term [Ret: Then!... it is what it is]. What you wish to add seems to be strategy and mid-term and might be beyond the current scope of this game [Ret: That's what it looks like]. Don't you wish a kind of Crusader Kings with detailed playable sieges ? [Ret: I have 'Older-Eyes'... and the legible print size in 'Crusader Kings' for me... is so small... that I can't play that game... so I can't answer your question directly!].
However... I don't wish to give up just yet!. Perhaps there is still some way to get some kind of happy medium here to accommodate my perception of how the Game can be designed or engineered.

I really don't know just how limited the capabilities of this Game is or are???... and if it is in-fact quite limited, then my petition for something more grandeous... is just a complete waste of time.
First thing, I am just a player. I won't speak for the devs and don't know their plans. I just give my impression.
Retributarr wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:28 pm
However... I don't wish to give up just yet!. Perhaps there is still some way to get some kind of happy medium here to accommodate my perception of how the Game can be designed or engineered.
I for one would also be in favour of an happy medium, ie long-term siege battles that would be handled just like the current FoG2 campaigns : you play several kinds of battle scenarios related to the siege and decide about strategy very quickly between; attrition and so on being handled by the AI (roll of dice). However, this is just an idea, not what FoG2: Medieval will actually be.

Besides, I guess this thread about the announcement of a game that is coming soon may not be the best place to discuss such matters and suggestions :-)

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by woos1981 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:05 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 am
woos1981 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:15 am
Will there be a new mechanism about castles and sieges battles in the game?
There are siege relief battles, fought outside the castle walls, with possible intervention by the castle garrison, but not sieges as such. This was a hard decision to make, since sieges were such an important part of Medieval warfare, but after a detailed analysis we decided that the system did not really lend itself to representing sieges. Relatively few sieges were resolved by assaults, and normal siege operations would make for a pretty boring game. Starving your opponent into submission probably wouldn’t be much fun.

I have no doubt that someone in the community will produce some sort of siege scenarios. The castle models are in place.
Thank you very much rbodleyscott! I hope there will be more diverse models of castle parts added to the game, even castles of different cultures.Thank you very much! Can't wait for this relase! :D

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Dux Limitis » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:33 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:13 pm
Besides, three types of armour for knights in this time span sounds reasonable enough and the maps look great.

Well it is only two in the 1040-1319 period, and then there will be a third in the later period up to 1500.
May I speaking sir,but I think you should make another types of mixed armour models for the knights in the 1319-1385 period to cover the knights in the 14th century.Because in this period the plate armours were not put into massed used and many knights were equiped with brigandine and coat of plates.Use only one type of plate armour try to cover the knights' armours from 1319-1500ad sounds wrong and not good.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Veles » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:21 am

Dux Limitis wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:33 am
May I speaking sir,but I think you should make another types of mixed armour models for the knights in the 1319-1385 period to cover the knights in the 14th century.Because in this period the plate armours were not put into massed used and many knights were equiped with brigandine and coat of plates.Use only one type of plate armour try to cover the knights' armours from 1319-1500ad sounds wrong and not good.
I think they are well aware of that. It's not a case of bad will or lack of knowledge/research but a question of resources and where to allocate them.

To be honest, the arms&armour variety during the XIV century was so high that in order to be accurate you would have to make at least 2 or 3 models of knights. Same for their retainers. It would be a welcome addition but I don't think it's possible right now. Hopefully, some modders will create models and textures for XIV and early XV century knights.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by Dux Limitis » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:37 am

Veles wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:21 am
Dux Limitis wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:33 am
May I speaking sir,but I think you should make another types of mixed armour models for the knights in the 1319-1385 period to cover the knights in the 14th century.Because in this period the plate armours were not put into massed used and many knights were equiped with brigandine and coat of plates.Use only one type of plate armour try to cover the knights' armours from 1319-1500ad sounds wrong and not good.
I think they are well aware of that. It's not a case of bad will or lack of knowledge/research but a question of resources and where to allocate them.

To be honest, the arms&armour variety during the XIV century was so high that in order to be accurate you would have to make at least 2 or 3 models of knights. Same for their retainers. It would be a welcome addition but I don't think it's possible right now. Hopefully, some modders will create models and textures for XIV and early XV century knights.
I think 2-3 models are enough for the 14th century knights.One with brigandine,one with coat of plates,and the last one with early plate.That don't seems will cost many resources.

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Re: Field of Glory II: Medieval is coming soon

Post by imitation_legionary » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:03 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:03 am
1040-1154.
Yay, Hastings and the First Crusade then! Perhaps some tail end Vikings too.

As for sieges, they are woefully underrepresented in wargames (board and computer) compared to how common and important they were historically. I feel however that trying to fit a siege model onto Field of Glory would be squarepegging a round hole. Sieges very much deserve their own game.

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