Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

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13obo
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by 13obo » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:35 pm

fuselex wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:27 pm
I see where you are coming from 13obo ,maybe I should hug a tree in the hope it will not be cut down , and maybe I can help feed the hungry , or maybe I can be the catalyst for world peace , that would be nice :)
Maybe I could live in a world that has morals , maybe all people will treat each other with respect ,
I should have the optimistic view of life that humanity is a good thing .
I may not be the brightest match in the box , but I`m also not the dullest
What happened to your previous account if you joined the forum on 6th Dec, 2017? Smells like a troll.

Anyway, constructive criticism is good, but yours is just plain and simple whining that yields nothing. What was done was done- there are dev diaries now and maybe focus on those.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Aerologue » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:36 pm

GUNDOBALDO08 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:54 pm
I notice theres more proportion matter: BA64 seems bigger then Tiger or IS2, I hope it will be solved...
Perhaps some customization might be possible. There could be an entry (column excel-wise) in the equipment file with default value 0 for standard size. A negative value could get the respective icon to shrink and vice versa with a positive value. Or a cheat could have the same effect for the current scenario. Just a thought.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by tucsonbandit » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:46 pm

yeah I hope there is some adjustable size for the units added or made available-- the rail gun is much smaller than a PZ I in the examples so far. I realize the exact ratios can never work since soldiers and tank guns would be invisible while battleships would take up three full screens..but some adjustments could still be implemented. The game looks great to me, can't wait to play..

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Kerensky » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Aerologue wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:36 pm
GUNDOBALDO08 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:54 pm
I notice theres more proportion matter: BA64 seems bigger then Tiger or IS2, I hope it will be solved...
Perhaps some customization might be possible. There could be an entry (column excel-wise) in the equipment file with default value 0 for standard size. A negative value could get the respective icon to shrink and vice versa with a positive value. Or a cheat could have the same effect for the current scenario. Just a thought.
Sounds like GoldenEye N64 Big Head mode... I like it.

Image

I wonder how it would make tank looks.

Image

Very cartoony... maybe too much so lol.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Kerensky » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:02 pm

Regarding the dev diary directly, I like the screenshot used much better. It's much easier to identify all the units at this perspective and zoom level, and they all look pretty impressive in their shiny 3D. Much more of a modern looking game for sure. That makes me think though. I mean if you really put your mind to it, you could kind of make a cinematic texture pack for the game. Just replace all of the terrain graphics. Man that would be crazy, imagine some kind of mod pack that replaces the general and far out zoomed terrain with buildings and trees all to scale with the units. With map design changed to accommodate the alternate tileset, that could produce some really spectacular results for gameplay and visuals... I'll have to keep this in mind moving forward...

Game looks more modern PG2 than PG3D, which is definitely a positive direction.

I mean when you compare
Image

to

Image

What a difference. So much so that I think the game view should default to the top link, when a new player fires up the game for the first time, this is the default perspective/view mode. And then of course with camera tools mouse wheel or whatever, they can change their perspective as they see fit, for a better gameplay experience zooming out to see more of the battle and less of the units like the second screenshot does.

Seeing all the nice units in a much nicer perspective, I wonder what all the status symbols mean. Bullet and arrow are clearly can move can shoot icons, good to see them get proper treatment. Base 10 strength is also a staple of the series, no more asinine arbitrary numbers like a certain other game. But what are the row of 6 dots everyone has. And the golden arrow above the strength numbers. Everyone seems to have both the arrow and the dots, which says they are just decoration, but I think they might have purpose. Perhaps the dot row is like stars of experience? But I can't figure out what the gold triangle arrow could mean. We'll see. The only think I can think of it actually quite boring. It's merely an indicator that says "I am pointing these stats to attach to this unit above my head". If that's it, that kind sucks. I would say it should have increased usage. For example gold triangles for CORE units. Silver triangles for AUX units. Alternate triangle graphics for mission critical units (things you have to kill or escort for example)

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Rudankort » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:33 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:02 pm
That makes me think though. I mean if you really put your mind to it, you could kind of make a cinematic texture pack for the game. Just replace all of the terrain graphics. Man that would be crazy, imagine some kind of mod pack that replaces the general and far out zoomed terrain with buildings and trees all to scale with the units. With map design changed to accommodate the alternate tileset, that could produce some really spectacular results for gameplay and visuals... I'll have to keep this in mind moving forward...
Creating such an alternative graphics pack is a lot of work for sure, but yeah, it might look very cool indeed.
Kerensky wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:02 pm
What a difference. So much so that I think the game view should default to the top link, when a new player fires up the game for the first time, this is the default perspective/view mode. And then of course with camera tools mouse wheel or whatever, they can change their perspective as they see fit, for a better gameplay experience zooming out to see more of the battle and less of the units like the second screenshot does.
Agreed! :)
Kerensky wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Seeing all the nice units in a much nicer perspective, I wonder what all the status symbols mean. Bullet and arrow are clearly can move can shoot icons, good to see them get proper treatment. Base 10 strength is also a staple of the series, no more asinine arbitrary numbers like a certain other game. But what are the row of 6 dots everyone has. And the golden arrow above the strength numbers. Everyone seems to have both the arrow and the dots, which says they are just decoration, but I think they might have purpose. Perhaps the dot row is like stars of experience? But I can't figure out what the gold triangle arrow could mean. We'll see. The only think I can think of it actually quite boring. It's merely an indicator that says "I am pointing these stats to attach to this unit above my head". If that's it, that kind sucks. I would say it should have increased usage. For example gold triangles for CORE units. Silver triangles for AUX units. Alternate triangle graphics for mission critical units (things you have to kill or escort for example)
You can find the answer to this question here: viewtopic.php?p=740270#p740270 ;)
Aerologue wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:36 pm
Perhaps some customization might be possible. There could be an entry (column excel-wise) in the equipment file with default value 0 for standard size. A negative value could get the respective icon to shrink and vice versa with a positive value. Or a cheat could have the same effect for the current scenario. Just a thought.
This is similar to how it works actually. Positive values are real life sizes, and the game resizes all models baed on this data for optimal results. But we can use a negative value to create an exception from this routine and size the unit the way we want.

New models are added to the game all the time, and we don't always set their size correctly right away, plus some models come in wrong size and need to be adjusted, plus there are some bugs in our data. This creates a lot of problems, so please bear with us, they will all be corrected in the end!
crisse88 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:29 pm
Will there be a ranking mode for multiplayer?
This is definitely on our list, but this also depends on weather we get server support, so we'll see.
crisse88 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:29 pm
Are there any plans to let them impact the surface they are on?
We are experimenting with it.
Aerologue wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:06 pm
Will the files for equipment, awards etc. continue to be in text format (i.e. editable) as in PC1?
Yes, many files will be in open format.
Aerologue wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:06 pm
How about a campaign tree of some sort so we get an idea of campaign scale?
At some point in the future we'll certainly publish it.
Aerologue wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:06 pm
Will there be a scenario editor?
Bombur wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:11 pm
It seems there won´t be a scenario editor?
Personally, I cannot even imagine a Panzer Corps game without a scenario editor. ;)

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by proline » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:52 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:02 pm
What a difference. So much so that I think the game view should default to the top link, when a new player fires up the game for the first time, this is the default perspective/view mode. And then of course with camera tools mouse wheel or whatever, they can change their perspective as they see fit, for a better gameplay experience zooming out to see more of the battle and less of the units like the second screenshot does.
There's no doubt Rudankort improved the camera angle 100% after the criticism of the first dev diary. This is a good reason to involve gamers- while Rudankort has said they've played with the camera and lighting a lot internally over two years, one day's worth of outside criticism still led to a massive improvement. You get used to the way things are when you work on a game every day. After a while it looks ok when really it isn't. You get to love the models so much you think identifying them from above via their shadows is easy when it is not.

The fact that units are completely unidentifiable when zoomed way out is still a problem. More skilled gamers would love to be able to see as much of the battlefield as possible.

Also, I get the obsession with turning off the hex grid to make the game seem cool in promo shots. I really do. But we're all gamers here. Please turn the hex grid on, turn it all the way up, and leave it that way so that we can see the game in an actual playable state. Thank you.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by goose_2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:37 pm

AlbertoC wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:06 pm
Content and play modes




Multiplayer

The classic PBEM++ multiplayer in Panzer Corps was very popular, and we will of course keep this option in the sequel. At the same time, some players felt that PBEM++ was not interactive enough and in fact “too old school”, compared to a “true” online multiplayer experience offered in many modern games. For these players we are adding a new Multiplayer mode which allows the players to be online at the same time, connect directly, and see each other’s moves in real time.

Most importantly, PBEM++ and online modes are not separated. All games are still kept on the server, and you don’t need to commit to a single play mode when creating a new MP game. You can play a few turns of a game in online mode, then revert to PBEM++ for several more turns, then play online again etc. We hope that this new system will make multiplayer even more popular in Panzer Corps 2.

Other changes in Multiplayer result directly from supporting up to 8 players on the same map. This gives us a lot of options to create competitive and cooperative games between several human and/or AI opponents.
Thanks for pointing this out Alberto...love the thought of being able to play online real time...very exciting the thought of being able to go back and forth watching moves in real time...not sure how that will work but am intrigued to see.

I also really like the ability for scenarios that are created for cooperative play...I love the thought of trying to play with my fellow gamers on a map where the Russian hordes never seem to end and if one member fails to execute well it could jeopardize the entire map/scenario...

Just unsure how this will look but extremely interested in seeing and testing out...

I also like the idea of more diversity in minor nation units as loved the diversity/pain of playing a Italian only campaign in Afrika Korps, and love the idea of modders taking your diversity and making a Hungarian Campaign...really wish I knew how to play mods on my computer...


I am not the biggest fan of the graphics but still holding out hope that the final product will be tight.

Thanks for the update and heads up Alberto...
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by MHochhaeuser » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:09 pm

I saw the first video at tube - its really nice ! I think the 3d units looks more like toon style - dont like this - would be nice to see real camo units - not this Civilizations VI style - I hate this.
The terrain needs much more details to play in the same league like the hand painted PGII maps in those days. I hope the streets, railways, rivers and bridges are only Alpha placeholders to work them out later !? The same with the urban structures - they looks like without textures - I dont see industrieal complexes, parks aor Churches, and please give us different real eastern front looking villages.
Also it would be really nice to play with historical named units like in the old PG3D (PGII) Loved this 20 years back !

So far - Thank you - I like to buy it - if you rework some things !

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Dux Limitis » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:21 pm

Hope will have imperial army of Japan.
Last edited by Dux Limitis on Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Rudankort » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:45 pm

goose_2 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:37 pm
I am not the biggest fan of the graphics but still holding out hope that the final product will be tight.
If you tell us what exactly is not right, we'll have a better chance to address it before the release. ;)
MHochhaeuser wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:09 pm
I saw the first video at tube - its really nice ! I think the 3d units looks more like toon style - dont like this - would be nice to see real camo units - not this Civilizations VI style - I hate this.
Why do you think that the units look "toon style"? To my eye they look quite serious/realistic, and not similar to Civ 6.
MHochhaeuser wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:09 pm
The terrain needs much more details to play in the same league like the hand painted PGII maps in those days. I hope the streets, railways, rivers and bridges are only Alpha placeholders to work them out later !? The same with the urban structures - they looks like without textures - I dont see industrieal complexes, parks aor Churches, and please give us different real eastern front looking villages.
We'll surely work on improving these things, although hand-painted maps will probably still have a certain advantage in terms of how "artistic" the map looks. But there are disadvantages with hand-painted maps as well. On one hand, they are not as clear and it can be hard to tell terrain type of a hex. On the other hand, they make creating custom maps in the editor much harder, and generating random maps nearly impossible. Panzer Corps 2 solves all these problems.
Dux Limitis wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:21 pm
Hope will have imperial army of japan.
I hope so too, but this can only happen after the initial release, when we get to creating new content about Pacific theatre.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by goose_2 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:45 pm
goose_2 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:37 pm
I am not the biggest fan of the graphics but still holding out hope that the final product will be tight.
If you tell us what exactly is not right, we'll have a better chance to address it before the release. ;)

The shadows look awful, either get rid of them or render less obvious...the rendering of the background looks horribly cheap...the unit rendering either needs be detailed enough that you want to zoom in on them for great detail, or cartooney to be seen solely as a symbolic unit...right now it looks like an in between both of those 2 extremes...

I hope that helps, I hate being critical and only doing in an effort to help...I am not much of a Graphics guy so that is my initial take.
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Rudankort » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:19 pm

goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
I hope that helps, I hate being critical and only doing in an effort to help...I am not much of a Graphics guy so that is my initial take.
Don't worry about that, just post all thoughts which you have. ;)
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
The shadows look awful, either get rid of them or render less obvious...
Just to make sure I understand this correctly, do you mean self-shadowing which makes the sides of the units too dark, or unit's shadows cast on the ground, or both?
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
the rendering of the background looks horribly cheap...
I assume that by background you mean the map itself. Could you please elaborate a bit more on this? What makes you think that it looks horribly cheap?
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
the unit rendering either needs be detailed enough that you want to zoom in on them for great detail, or cartooney to be seen solely as a symbolic unit...right now it looks like an in between both of those 2 extremes...
Interesting observation, we'll give it a thought.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by goose_2 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:54 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:19 pm
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
I hope that helps, I hate being critical and only doing in an effort to help...I am not much of a Graphics guy so that is my initial take.
Don't worry about that, just post all thoughts which you have. ;)
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
The shadows look awful, either get rid of them or render less obvious...
Just to make sure I understand this correctly, do you mean self-shadowing which makes the sides of the units too dark, or unit's shadows cast on the ground, or both?

Definitely the ones on the ground, if they are seen as necessary, for realism or something than minimize their darkness...I am unsure of the unit shadowing because I am not sure what removing that would do to the look of the rendering of the unit...
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
the rendering of the background looks horribly cheap...
I assume that by background you mean the map itself. Could you please elaborate a bit more on this? What makes you think that it looks horribly cheap?
Yeah the back ground looks muted minimized and overall cloudy...in fact so much so that all I see are the units and do not really look at the background.
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm
the unit rendering either needs be detailed enough that you want to zoom in on them for great detail, or cartooney to be seen solely as a symbolic unit...right now it looks like an in between both of those 2 extremes...
Interesting observation, we'll give it a thought.
Posted my thoughts around the questions
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by bebro » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:07 pm

I think the shadows which units cause on the ground are actually ok, but the shading of the part that is pointing directly to the player is too dark.

For example in the pic above the Panther's and Jagdpanther's tracks, wheels, are almost black, with no detail visible.

The shadow on the ground seems relatively moderate/ok to me, but yeah, it's highly subjective (also depends on stuff like monitors/settings).

I would not remove shadows completely (personally I find it unrelastic), but maybe optional?

just some 2 cents of mine :)

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by proline » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:31 am

bebro wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:07 pm
I would not remove shadows completely (personally I find it unrelastic), but maybe optional?
Rudankort has explained elsewhere that you will not be able to turn the shadows off as some terrain, such as hills, would completely disappear in even light as they consist of nothing but shadow generators. Seems kind of goofy to make a game 100% dependent on identifying things by shadows, but there you have it. Yay 3D.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Erasermarek » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:01 am

Models looks too plastic for me... but i hope its just alpha version and will be improved. I just ask and i think we are now in year 2018... in PG3 we have from smoked to burned model (based on damage) of units. I realy miss this feature in PzC.... can you make it? For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoLaNDv5M7Q 45:20

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by ElCaballero » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:43 am

Will there be ranked games in MP?

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by goose_2 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:10 pm

ElCaballero wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:43 am
Will there be ranked games in MP?
Ranked games? What does that mean?
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #2

Post by Gwaylare » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:23 am

A ranked game does mean you earn and loose points with every game played. So this will give you a ladder accordings to the strengh of players. Usually you are able to choose a ranked or a practice game.
Most multiplayer games do use this together with an automatic matchmaking, which is just usefull with a large player base otherwise the matchmaking is just fast OR accurate.

But even without an automatic matchmaking there are benefits, if a rank is showed within a multiplayer game setup. Best games are with players of same experience, but you do never know about before. Especially for multiplayer learners it would be great to play against other learners, before playing against more experienced players.

A good example of ranking is the ELO used in chess. I think it is quite easy to implement, may be it need to be adapted a little bit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system

Even if not implemented within in the game it would be possible to do this within tournaments ;-)

Best regards
Gwaylare

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